Jake Nebel Defends Glenbrooks Title
Matt Ross Wins J.V. LD Championship;
Bronx Science Wins Public Forum
GLENVIEW and NORTHBROOK, Ill. — The Glenbrooks has concluded. After three days of competition that began with a field of 188 varsity Lincoln-Douglas debaters, defending champion Jake Nebel of Trinity Preparatory School faced off against challenger J.P. Gooderham of Upper Saint Clair High School. On a 3-0 decision, Jake defeated J.P. to win his second consecutive Glenbrooks title. Accounting for all events, the Glenbrooks remains the largest high school-run forensics tournament in America. Congratulations to both debaters!
Jake is coached by Petey Gil-Montllor; J.P. is coached by Rich Platts and Ali Huberlie.
Jake is only the third person ever to be a repeat champion at the Glenbrooks. Jason Baldwin of Vestavia Hills High School won the tournament in 1991 and 1992; John McNeil won the tournament in two consecutive close-outs in 2002 and 2003.
The Glenbrooks is the fourth consecutive tournament with an octafinals bid to the Tournament of Champions that has concluded with a repeat champion. Jake Nebel defended his title at the Greenhill Fall Classic, Chris Theis defended his title at the St. Mark’s Heart of Texas Invitational, and Ben Holguin defended his title at the Minneapple.
The Glenbrooks also boasts a prestigious and competitive junior varsity Lincoln-Douglas debate tournament, sponsored by Glenview Street Bank. In the final round, the Bronx High School of Science’s Matt Ross debated Barrington High School’s Natasha Thondavadi. The panel consisted of Beena Koshy, Liz Mullins, and Jeff Roberts. On a 2-1 decision — Koshy dissented — Matt defeated Natasha to win the title. Congratulations to both debaters!
Matt is coached by Jon Cruz, Douglas Jeffers, and Taarini Vohra; Natasha is coached by Susan Teegarden.
The Public Forum debate tournament began with 105 teams, but by Sunday evening, only two remained: the Bronx High School of Science’s Daniel Wilkofsky and Tina Ritter and Walt Whitman High School’s Alex Edelman and Aaron Schifrin. On a 3-0 decision, Bronx Science defeated Walt Whitman to take the tournament. Congratulations to both teams!
Daniel and Tina are coached by Joseph Gazzola and Jon Cruz; Alex and Aaron are coached by Anjan Choudhury, Tanya Choudhury, Elyse Lyons, Todd Liipfert, and Stephanie Caravias.
You can access the pairings for the preliminary rounds in varsity Lincoln-Douglas debate by clicking here.
LINCOLN-DOUGLAS DEBATE
(33) Altamont SA (Sasha Arijanto)
SEXTODECIMOS
(1) Strake Jesuit PT def. (32) Bronx Science SS (Saboor Sheerazi)
3-0 (Stephen Babb, Tim Hogan, Josh Anderson)
(2) Los Altos DM def. (31) Desert Vista XL (Xi Lin)
(Eric Melin, Tom Evnen, David McGough)
(3) Edina BH def. (30) Lynbrook RR (Rohit Ramkumar)
(Anjan Choudhury, Neil Conrad, Hirsh Jain)
(4) Edina DM def. (29) Oak Mountain JL (Jeff Liu)
(Eric Melin, Tom Evnen, David McGough)
(5) Valley RB def. (28) Brentwood MS (Michael Shagrin)
(Fabien Thayamballi, Adam Nelson, Patrick Diehl)
(6) Upper Saint Clair JG def. (27) Archer LB (Laura Bomes)
(Fabien Thayamballi, Adam Nelson, Patrick Diehl)
(7) Mountain View DK over (26) Mountain View DG (Daniel Garber)
(25) Scarsdale MM def. (8) Westlake DR (Devin Race)
3-0 (Petey Gil-Montllor, Stephen Hess, Tom Rollins)
(9) Trinity Prep JN def. (24) Walt Whitman EN (Ellen Noble)
(Stephen Babb, Tim Hogan, Josh Anderson)
(23) Bronx Science MD def. (10) Southlake Carroll RB (Ryan Bennett)
2-1 (*Petey Gil-Montllor, Stephen Hess, Tom Rollins)
(22) Lakeville South CK def. (11) Saint Louis Park CT (Catherine Tarsney)
(Anjan Choudhury, Neil Conrad, Hirsh Jain)
(21) Apple Valley CT def. (12) Blake EL (Erik Legried)
(Mike Spirtos, Wesley Craven, Justin Hinojoza)
(20) Scarsdale KH def. (13) Westlake AW (Andrew Waks)
2-1 (Prashant Rai, *Larry McGrath, Eric Palmer)
(19) Lake Highland GB def. (14) Apple Valley MK (Michelle Keohane)
(Ari Parker, Ernie Rose, Daniel Sheehan)
(15) Anderson MV def. (18) Walt Whitman BL (Ben Lewis)
(Prashant Rai, Larry McGrath, Eric Palmer)
(16) Hockaday SV def. (17) Scarsdale MH (Matt Hershey)
(Ari Parker, Ernie Rose, Daniel Sheehan)
OCTAS
(1) Strake Jesuit PT def. (16) Hockaday SV (Shivani Vohra)
(Patrick Diehl, Anjan Choudhury, Stephen Babb)
(15) Anderson MV def. (2) Los Altos DM (Daniel Moerner)
(Patrick Diehl, Anjan Choudhury, Stephen Babb)
(19) Lake Highland GB def. (3) Edina BH (Ben Holguin)
(Prashant Rai, Larry McGrath, Ernie Rose)
(20) Scarsdale KH def. (4) Edina DM (David McNeil)
(Prashant Rai, Larry McGrath, Ernie Rose)
(21) Apple Valley CT def. (5) Valley RB (Ross Brown)
(Tom Evnen, Eric Palmer, Ari Parker)
(6) Upper Saint Clair JG def. (22) Lakeville South CK (Christian Keil)
(Tom Evnen, Eric Palmer, Ari Parker)
(7) Mountain View DK def. (23) Bronx Science MD (Matt Dunay)
2-1 (*Tim Hogan, Hirsh Jain, Adam Nelson)
(9) Trinity Prep JN def. (25) Scarsdale MM (Marcus Moretti)
(Tim Hogan, Hirsh Jain, Adam Nelson)
QUARTERS
(9) Trinity Prep JN def. (1) Strake Jesuit PT (Paul Tyger)
(Wesley Craven, Patrick Diehl, Tom Evnen)
(7) Mountain View DK def. (15) Anderson MV (Madeline Vuong)
(Ernie Rose, Hirsh Jain, Tim Hogan)
(6) Upper Saint Clair JG def. (19) Lake Highland GB (Gurdane Bhutani)
(Neil Conrad, Eric Palmer, Prashant Rai)
(21) Apple Valley CT def. (20) Scarsdale KH (Ken Hershey)
(Petey Gil-Montllor, Adam Nelson, Daniel Sheehan)
SEMIS
(9) Trinity Prep JN def. (21) Apple Valley CT (Chris Theis)
2-1 (Neil Conrad, Patrick Diehl, *Mike Spirtos)
(6) Upper Saint Clair JG def. (7) Mountain View DK (Daniel Khalessi)
2-1 (Tim Hogan, Daniel Sheehan, *Hirsh Jain)
FINALS
(9) Trinity Prep JN def. (6) Upper Saint Clair JG (J.P. Gooderham)
3-0 (Daniel Sheehan, Tim Hogan, Patrick Diehl)
CHAMPION
(9) Trinity Prep JN (Jake Nebel)
—
(17) Harvard-Westlake NP (Nick Pritzker)
GLENVIEW STREET BANK J.V. OCTAS
(16) Scarsdale SL def. (1) Mountain Brook EE (Elizabeth Ernstberger)
(2) Bronx Science MR def. (15) Lakeville South WB (Wes Brand)
(3) Scarsdale JB def. (14) Hockaday TJ (Trishla Jain)
(13) Barrington KP def. (4) Lakeville South DS (Dylan Slinger)
(12) Barrington NT def. (5) Walt Whitman SH (Stephanie Haven)
(11) Walt Whitman MT def. (6) Havard-Westlake BSK (Ben Sprung-Keyser)
(7) Apple Valley JP def. (10) College Prep AK (Alex Kennedy)
(8) Bronx Science CC def. (9) Edina SW (Silas Wallen-Friedman)
GLENVIEW STREET BANK J.V. QUARTERS
(8) Bronx Science CC def. (16) Scarsdale SL (Sahil Lalwani)
(2) Bronx Science MR def. (7) Apple Valley JP (Jordan Parmett)
(3) Scarsdale JB def. (11) Walt Whitman MT (Marshall Thompson)
(12) Barrington NT over (13) Barrington KP (Kanisha Parthasarathy)
GLENVIEW STREET BANK J.V. SEMIS
(12) Barrington NT def. (8) Bronx Science CC (Carolyn Clendenin)
2-1 (Chad Henson, *Chris Catterton, Liz Vieira)
(2) Bronx Science MR def. (3) Scarsdale JB (Jonathan Bowyer)
3-0 (Liz Mullins, Ryan Graham, Wade Houston)
GLENVIEW STREET BANK J.V. FINALS
(2) Bronx Science MR def. (12) Barrington NT (Natasha Thondavadi)
2-1 (Jeff Roberts, *Beena Koshy, Liz Mullins)
GLENVIEW STREET BANK J.V. CHAMPION
(2) Bronx Science MR (Matt Ross)
—
TOP J.V. SPEAKERS
1. Elizabeth Ernstberger — Mountain Brook High School (AL)
2. Sahil Lalwani — Scarsdale High School (NY)
3. Matt Ross — The Bronx High School of Science (NY)
4. Jonathan Bowyer — Scarsdale High School (NY)
5. Cole Helsell — Albuquerque Academy (NM)
6. Caroline Brand — Pinecrest High School (NC)
7. Samantha Alman — Ransom Everglades High School (FL)
8. Dylan Slinger — Lakeville South High School (MN)
9. Lara Gatehouse — The Hockaday School (TX)
10. Cory Wynn — Brentwood School (CA)
Popularity: 20% [?]
test
Posted from: 206.251.74.247
November 22nd, 2008 07:56
[...] The Glenbrooks: Live Coverage Villiger: Live Coverage [...]
Posted from: 74.70.112.133
November 22nd, 2008 09:29
RD 2:
Hockaday SV (aff) V Niskayuna SD (neg)
Posted from: 70.21.178.156
November 22nd, 2008 09:58
Records?
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 22nd, 2008 10:03
matt thomas is 0-2
Posted from: 98.210.140.232
November 22nd, 2008 10:04
Goodluck Narayan and Rohit!
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 22nd, 2008 10:06
Saboor Sheerazi is 2-0. Matt Dunay and Seth Teleky were 1-0 going into round 2.
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 22nd, 2008 11:40
Bronx Science SS, MD, and ST are all 2-0.
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 22nd, 2008 11:41
for team Al records are as follows
Saint James NG (Nick Gorman (me)) 2-0
Vestavia KS (Kevin Sipe) 1-1
Vestavia JS (John Summerland) 1-1
Mountain Brook CB (Carder Bielen) 2-0
Mountain Brook CH (Claire Herron) 1-1
Mountain Brook LL (Logan LaDuke) 0-2
Oak Mountain JL (Jeff Liu) 2-0?
Oak Mountain LL (Larry Liu) 1-1?
GO TEAM AL
Posted from: 71.190.125.142
November 22nd, 2008 11:49
GO BRONX!
Posted from: 208.61.144.23
November 22nd, 2008 12:08
TEAM ALABAMA FTW!!!
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 22nd, 2008 12:32
MN is 5-5
TN is 10-0
MI is 0-10
Posted from: 65.42.208.133
November 22nd, 2008 13:22
Shope, you’ve had good judges. no excuse to complain.
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 22nd, 2008 13:25
for team Al records are as follows
Saint James NG (Nick Gorman (me)) 2-1
Vestavia KS (Kevin Sipe) contracted venereal disease and had to leave the tournament.
Vestavia JS (John Summerland) 1-2
Mountain Brook CB (Carder Bielen) 2-1
Mountain Brook CH (Claire Herron) ?
Mountain Brook LL (Logan LaDuke) 1-2
Oak Mountain JL (Jeff Liu) ?
Oak Mountain LL (Larry Liu) ?
Posted from: 216.180.117.147
November 22nd, 2008 13:37
Gorman–kevin really had to leave the tournament??
and its summerlin
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 22nd, 2008 14:26
it’s okay, i hear kevin can come back to the tournament tomorrow.
Posted from: 70.196.167.80
November 22nd, 2008 15:01
Jesuit WS is 2-1
Posted from: 70.112.61.21
November 22nd, 2008 15:32
Go Andrew and Devin!! Have fun!
Posted from: 70.196.167.80
November 22nd, 2008 16:02
Are ballots being posted online anywhere?
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 22nd, 2008 17:01
… kevin doesn’t have a disease, hur hur. new alabama postings:
for team Al records are as follows
Saint James NG (Nick Gorman) 3-1
Vestavia KS (Kevin Sipe) 2-2
Vestavia JS (John Summerland) 2-2
Vestavia WP (William Parker) 3-1
Mountain Brook CB (Carder Bielen) 2-2
Mountain Brook CH (Claire Herron) 2-2
Mountain Brook LL (Logan LaDuke) 1-3
Posted from: 12.32.84.130
November 22nd, 2008 17:07
Lakeville South CK: 3-1
Lakeville North TC: 2-2
Lakeville North EW: 1-3
Posted from: 208.61.136.208
November 22nd, 2008 17:24
its a joke!!!! yall are stupid… shanna almost had a heart attack… but jsyk, i didnt buy it..
Posted from: 199.189.10.33
November 22nd, 2008 17:48
oooooookay.
Posted from: 72.199.38.115
November 22nd, 2008 19:05
Go Loyola TM and MM :)
Posted from: 76.201.61.251
November 22nd, 2008 19:23
Go Loyola!! don’t mezz up guys!
Posted from: 68.196.195.40
November 22nd, 2008 19:27
Oak Mountain LL and Oak Mountain JL are both 3-1
Posted from: 165.123.231.179
November 22nd, 2008 19:48
perkiomen valley kg is 3-1
Posted from: 63.250.234.2
November 22nd, 2008 19:55
Desert Vista XL 3-1
Desert Vista MM 2-2
Brophy Prep JL 3-1
Posted from: 63.250.234.2
November 22nd, 2008 20:09
Carroll RB is 4-0
Posted from: 165.123.123.56
November 22nd, 2008 20:12
Upper St. Clair JG is 4-0.
Posted from: 67.80.215.195
November 22nd, 2008 20:23
Good luck to the Liu twins, Xi, Alex, JP, Karlyn, Edina, Dan and Matt, Claire, Scarsdale, and anybody else I am forgetting. :o)
Posted from: 76.201.61.251
November 22nd, 2008 20:32
Loyola MM 3-1
Loyola TM 2-2
Posted from: 24.15.67.85
November 22nd, 2008 21:00
New Trier AC 2-2
New Trier CC 2-2
Posted from: 12.32.84.174
November 22nd, 2008 21:08
S Sorensen = Strug Sorensen
Posted from: 72.199.38.115
November 22nd, 2008 21:16
S. Sorensen = Stephanie Sorensen
Posted from: 72.199.38.115
November 22nd, 2008 21:16
S. Sorensen = Stephanie Sorensen
Posted from: 74.70.110.206
November 22nd, 2008 21:38
Niskayuna SD is 2-2
Niskayuna DV is 3-1
Posted from: 76.88.28.133
November 22nd, 2008 22:30
Torrey IG 3-1
Torrey MA 2-2
Torrey CS 2-2
Posted from: 68.192.28.123
November 22nd, 2008 22:52
Take it home Liu boys! :D
Good luck Castro, Dharia, Deeks, and Phelan!
And be nice to Stephanie =P
Posted from: 71.142.86.125
November 22nd, 2008 23:32
when are postings up for outrounds?
dying to know if anyone broke from LHS
Posted from: 71.142.86.125
November 23rd, 2008 00:40
lake highland!
Posted from: 69.226.47.189
November 23rd, 2008 00:42
GO CHAMINADE.
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 06:49
Jon where is Varsity round 4? What about Varsity round 5? ;) TK
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 08:12
Ouch!
They’re coming. :o)
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 09:30
me and dan are out
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 09:34
for team Al records are as follows
Saint James NG (Nick Gorman) 3-2
Vestavia DK (Disease Kid) 2-3
Vestavia JS (John Summerland) 2-3
Vestavia WP (William Parker) 3-2
Vestavia LW (Locke/Wei) 4-1 [policy ftw.]
Mountain Brook CB (Carter Bielen) 3-2
Mountain Brook CH (Claire Herron) 2-3
Mountain Brook LL (Logan LaDuke) 1-4
Mountain Brook LE (Lizzie Ernstberger) 5-0
Mountain Brook MS (Mary Sellers Shaw) 2-3
Posted from: 24.214.64.12
November 23rd, 2008 09:46
Roll Tide
Posted from: 68.17.136.254
November 23rd, 2008 09:50
Good job lizzie!!!!
disease kid is 2-3, cmon kevs!!
Posted from: 74.70.110.206
November 23rd, 2008 09:52
Niskayuna SD is 2-3
Niskayuna DV is 3-2
Posted from: 71.60.209.85
November 23rd, 2008 11:50
Upper St. Clair JG is 5-1
Posted from: 70.21.178.156
November 23rd, 2008 11:51
RE: Ben
I’m not at Gbrooks bro. Haha. Thanks anyways.
Posted from: 75.56.209.59
November 23rd, 2008 12:13
Hey, in the round of Trinity Prep JN v. Los Altos DM, who won?
Posted from: 165.123.230.122
November 23rd, 2008 12:16
Wait, there is another Chaminade High School?
Also, perkiomen valley kg was 4-1 going into round 6.
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 12:22
NY (Non-Scarsdale/Bronx ‘Cuz They SUCK) Heg:
Berkeley Carroll DS 3-3
Byram Hills EF 3-3
Byram Hills RK 2-4
Byram Hills SS 2-4 or 3-3
Monticello DC 2-4
Monticello MT 3-3
Niskayuna DV 3-3
Niskayuna SD 3-3
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 12:23
for team Al records are as follows
Saint James NG (Nick Gorman) 3-3
Vestavia KS (Kevin Sipe) 3-3
Vestavia JS (John Summerlin) 2-4
Vestavia WP (William Parker) 4-2
Mountain Brook CB (Carter Bielen) 4-2
*Mountain Brook CH (Claire Herron) 3-3
*Mountain Brook LL (Logan LaDuke) 2-4
Mountain Brook LE (Lizzie Ernstberger) 6-0
*Mountain Brook MS (Mary Sellers Shaw) 3-3
–
*these ≠ definite.
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 12:55
Bellarmine BP 3-3
Bellarmine KV 3-3
Going into Rd 7
Posted from: 74.226.44.184
November 23rd, 2008 13:30
congrats kanisha, natasha, and lizzie!!!
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 13:41
Chaminade College Prep has been a presence in policy debate (and forensics in general) for some time. :o)
Bronx Science LD records:
Matt Dunay is 5-1 and Saboor Sheerazi and Seth Teleky are 4-2 going into round 7.
In J.V., Matt Ross and Carolyn Clendenin are 5-1 and will clear.
Posted from: 32.137.57.181
November 23rd, 2008 13:42
Congrsts sahil and jon take it home
Posted from: 208.120.131.125
November 23rd, 2008 13:46
GO CAROLYN+MATT
win.
Posted from: 68.11.25.35
November 23rd, 2008 14:07
New Orleans Jesuit’s Will Simoneaux is 5-2
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 14:09
Desert Vista XL 5-2
Desert Vista MM 4-3
Posted from: 24.1.213.39
November 23rd, 2008 14:11
Any news on BW in LD Varsity?
Posted from: 70.21.178.156
November 23rd, 2008 14:15
Congrats Xi!
Posted from: 152.17.59.194
November 23rd, 2008 14:35
yay bronx!
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 14:42
results i know;
brentwood cw 4-2
brentwood ms 5-2
brentwood jl 4-3
harvard westlake sn 4-3
Posted from: 76.201.61.251
November 23rd, 2008 15:00
brentwood cw–no clear???
Posted from: 69.150.185.94
November 23rd, 2008 15:05
anyone got some Houston area rec’s and breaks for varsity ld?
Posted from: 70.190.107.14
November 23rd, 2008 15:08
Any word on Brophy Prep JL?
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 15:33
so for final alabama stuff.
Saint James NG (Nick Gorman) 4-3
Vestavia KS (Kevin Sipe) 4-3
Vestavia JS (John Summerland) 2-5
Vestavia WP (William Parker) 4-2
Vestavia LW (Locke/Wei) 4-2 (broke to octos + fail)
Mountain Brook CB (Carter Bielen) 5-2
Mountain Brook CH (Claire Herron) 3-4
Mountain Brook LL (Logan LaDuke) 3-4
Mountain Brook LE (Lizzie Ernstberger) 6-0? (broke to octos + fail)
Mountain Brook MS (Mary Sellers Shaw) 3-3
Posted from: 208.61.147.200
November 23rd, 2008 15:44
is carter going to clear?
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 15:52
Dubs
Mountain View CA DK Vs Mountain View CA DG
Strake Jesuit PT Vs Bronx Science SS
Trinity Prep JN Vs Walt Whitman EN
Westlake DR Vs Scarsdale MM
Carroll RB Vs Bronx Science MD
Westlake AW Vs Scarsdale KH
Anderson MV Vs Walt Whitman BL
Apple Valley MK Vs Lake Highland Prep GB
Hockaday SV Vs Scarsdale MH
Los Altos DM Vs Desert Vista XL
Edina DM Vs Oak Mountain JL
Valley RB Vs Brentwood CA MS
Upper St Clair JG Vs Archer LB
Edina BH Vs Lynbrook RR
St Louis Park CT Vs Lakeville South CK
Blake EL Vs Apple Valley CT
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 15:52
Varsity LD Breaks
Mountain View DK
Mountain View DG
Strake PT
Bronx SS
Trinity Prep JN
Walt Whitman EN
Westlake DR
Scarsdale MM
Carroll RB
Bronx MD
Westlake AW
Scarsdale KH
Anderson MV
Walt Whitman BL
Apple Valley MK
Lake Highland Prep GB
Hockaday SV
Scarsdale MH
Los Altos DM
Desert Vista XL
Edina DM
Oak Mountain JL
Valley RB
Brentwood MS
Upper St. Clair JG
Archer LB
Edina BH
Lynbrook RR
St. Louis Park CT
Lakeville South CK
Blake EL
Apple Valley CT
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 15:53
whooops. too late
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 15:58
wes craven is about to squirrel
Posted from: 71.135.78.60
November 23rd, 2008 16:00
congrats ro i know you’ve been waiting for this forever
bring home the bid baby
Posted from: 99.151.9.87
November 23rd, 2008 16:04
congrats rohit!
Posted from: 208.120.131.125
November 23rd, 2008 16:34
congrats saboor+dunay
how’s bronx doing in jv?
Posted from: 208.120.131.125
November 23rd, 2008 16:35
congrats saboor+dunay
how’s bronx doing in jv?
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 16:41
I really wanna know speaks… it’s like… the only thing i have left. D: D: D: XD
Posted from: 63.250.234.2
November 23rd, 2008 16:56
Theis up 3-0
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 16:57
i witnessed Strake PT def Bronx SS 3-0 hogan babb anderson
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 16:58
Bronx CC def Edina SW 3-0
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 16:59
strake jesuit pt def. bronnx science ss
3-0.
Posted from: 67.243.42.167
November 23rd, 2008 17:05
GO BRONX!
Congrats to Carolyn, Matt, Dunay, Saboor, Irene and Julia for Breaking!
Dont drop this finals, Carolyn. :-)
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 17:06
Scarsdale MM won on a 3-0
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 17:06
btw, jvld quarters.
Barrington KP (over?) Barrington NT
Bronx Science MR vs. Apple Valley JP
Scarsdale JB vs. Walt Whitman MT
Bronx Science CC vs. Scarsdale SL
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 17:09
Scarsdale MM over Westlake DR 3-0 (Gil, Hess, Rollins)
Posted from: 67.175.194.143
November 23rd, 2008 17:22
does anyone know results from JV quarters?
Barr NT advanced over Barr KP
Posted from: 208.120.131.125
November 23rd, 2008 17:30
@88;
Bronx CC def. Scarsdale SL
Bronx MR def. Apple Valley JP
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 17:59
Bronx Science MD over Carroll RB
2 – 1
(*Gil, Hess, Rollins)
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 18:00
i witnessed Trinity JN def Whitman EN 3-0
Posted from: 74.70.110.206
November 23rd, 2008 18:03
congrats to jeff on the 3rd consecutive bid round
Posted from: 199.189.11.110
November 23rd, 2008 18:03
Edina DM def. Oak Mountain JL on a 3-0
Posted from: 208.120.131.125
November 23rd, 2008 18:05
okay dunay
i officially dont hate you anymore.
Posted from: 68.192.165.197
November 23rd, 2008 18:21
madeline!
Posted from: 165.123.122.207
November 23rd, 2008 18:27
Upper St. Clair JG def. Archer LB on a 3-0.
Posted from: 71.60.209.85
November 23rd, 2008 18:28
Upper St Clair JG def Archer LB (3-0 decision)
Posted from: 72.193.119.236
November 23rd, 2008 18:39
Policy D-Octos
Bellarmine RV vs Wooster CG
Brophy Prep CMPM vs CR Washington KP
College Prep KV vs Greenhill KK
Dallas Jesuit MY vs Damien BR
Damien EH vs Westwood GM
Greenhill BL vs Berkeley Prep SS
Henry Sibley BC vs Bronx Science BM
Kinkaid KS vs Hooch CS
Lexington KS vs Fullerton Union GS
New Trier GS vs Bishop Guertin CP
Ft. Lauderdale BM vs Notre Dame CA DP
Pace Academy AL vs Berkeley Prep HS
Colleyville Heritage MN vs St. Marks GM
Westminster AT vs Hooch LR
Westminster JS vs Wayzata RR
Woodward MP vs Bellarmine JS
Posted from: 68.192.28.123
November 23rd, 2008 18:46
Solid showing Jeff! Keep it up!
And good job everybody else :)
Posted from: 72.90.220.217
November 23rd, 2008 18:50
Liu heg ftw. Congrats on the third bid round Jeff.
Posted from: 75.72.81.194
November 23rd, 2008 18:55
Is LD done for the night?
Posted from: 72.80.238.7
November 23rd, 2008 19:17
BRONX FTW!
Posted from: 208.61.147.149
November 23rd, 2008 19:34
william– “its all i have left!” hah lol
but at least you get to watch really AWESOME out rounds, whereas i have to go to school :(
Posted from: 209.30.166.144
November 23rd, 2008 19:58
NOOO RYAN DROPPED!!!!!!!!
Posted from: 12.32.84.244
November 23rd, 2008 20:07
Lakeville South CK def St Louis Park CT 2-1 (*Conrad, Choudhury, Jain)
Posted from: 12.32.84.130
November 23rd, 2008 22:37
congrats to shagrin and bomes for the bid round
Posted from: 67.167.238.118
November 23rd, 2008 23:16
Lake Highland GB def. Apple Valley MK (Michelle Keohane)
3-0 (Ari Parker, Ernie Rose, Daniel Sheehan)
Hockaday SV vs. Scarsdale MH
3-0 (Ari Parker, Ernie Rose, Daniel Sheehan)
Posted from: 12.32.84.130
November 24th, 2008 00:16
The Pwneill experience was unjustly thwarted at this illegit tournament. Hackery can stop him now but good luck at the 2010 T bro C.b
Posted from: 12.32.84.130
November 24th, 2008 01:43
I’m a pwneillionaire, I’m a young sucking pwneillionaire
Tougher than Chris Theis, beware!
Your criterion compared to my intelligence just isn’t fair
I’m a venereal disease cause I have menstrual bleeds
He’s a beast, he’s a dog, he’s a muthaf***ing electric eel
OK, you’re a goon but what’s a goon to a Pwneill?!?
~ Pwneill F Baby
Posted from: 24.90.84.59
November 24th, 2008 06:01
Packets are up at:
http://www.glenbrookdebate.com/
Posted from: 12.32.84.244
November 24th, 2008 06:20
stop posting on vbd. you are annoying and not cool.
Posted from: 167.206.203.14
November 24th, 2008 07:17
CONGRATS DAN AND TINA!
when are semis for jv and octas for v?
Posted from: 63.250.237.26
November 24th, 2008 08:04
One sem in JV is Bronx CC v. Barrington NT
Posted from: 150.212.3.56
November 24th, 2008 08:26
I am a robot and this robot is on overload,
And bitch I always will be hot like I’m in overcoats
Posted from: 75.73.68.33
November 24th, 2008 09:15
lol at the moron who thinks that pwneillionaire is actually phelan
Posted from: 12.32.84.130
November 24th, 2008 09:28
I’ll have the pairings for varsity and JV LD up shortly. Finals in JV LD is Bronx Science vs. Barrington.
Posted from: 165.123.231.197
November 24th, 2008 09:43
Upper St. Clair JG def. Lakeville CK on a 3-0 in octos.
Posted from: 167.206.203.14
November 24th, 2008 09:51
good luck in finals matt…take it home
congrats on semis carolyn
Posted from: 67.175.194.143
November 24th, 2008 11:13
congrats to all the other debaters who were in outrounds for JVLD and to Bronx MR for winning the division
Posted from: 74.212.16.15
November 24th, 2008 12:21
any updates?
Posted from: 165.123.230.34
November 24th, 2008 12:40
Upper St. Clair JG is affirming in semis against Mountain View DK. The panel is Hogan, Sheehan, Jain.
Posted from: 74.212.16.15
November 24th, 2008 12:49
go jp!
Posted from: 70.194.24.155
November 24th, 2008 12:55
JP is a baller. TAKE IT FOR THE TRIFECTA.
Posted from: 204.8.196.66
November 24th, 2008 13:13
JPPP TRIFECTAAAAA
Posted from: 165.123.230.34
November 24th, 2008 13:14
JP def. Khalessi to advance to finals.
Posted from: 24.151.41.11
November 24th, 2008 13:26
Setting the stage on fire. Go JP!
Posted from: 96.242.12.41
November 24th, 2008 13:28
who is the other debater in finals?
Posted from: 165.123.230.34
November 24th, 2008 13:29
Finals is JP Gooderham v. Jake Nebel.
Posted from: 67.107.166.135
November 24th, 2008 14:15
go JP!
Posted from: 151.198.226.188
November 24th, 2008 14:26
congrats to jeff liu. and good luck to JP!
Posted from: 76.93.137.42
November 24th, 2008 14:27
congrats to matt ross for the win! way to rep lewis/mcgough bro
Posted from: 68.214.39.99
November 24th, 2008 14:28
congrats natasha on finals! way to rep not an epic fail lab.
Posted from: 64.202.139.214
November 24th, 2008 14:53
damn jp good job, and also to jake.
Posted from: 74.70.110.206
November 24th, 2008 15:05
huge congrats to JP on reaching finals
Posted from: 24.90.84.59
November 24th, 2008 15:18
Major congrats to the Bronx JV-ers: Matt Ross for steamrolling through the field and taking the championship, and to Caroline for getting to semis. Niiiice work.
Also, congrats to Dunay for clearing, and to Sahil and Bowyer for clearing in JV.
Posted from: 24.90.84.59
November 24th, 2008 15:29
Oh – and congrats to Saboor and the Whitman JV-ers.
Posted from: 98.114.207.11
November 24th, 2008 15:37
Major, major congrats to JP on getting to finals and grabbing his third bid at his third tournament of the year.
Posted from: 24.102.131.97
November 24th, 2008 15:59
I <3 the Liu twins.
Posted from: 67.81.91.133
November 24th, 2008 16:13
congrats jp
Posted from: 68.117.162.184
November 24th, 2008 16:16
Congrats Jake Nebel!
Posted from: 75.73.68.33
November 24th, 2008 16:45
I dont know if this is the right place to start this discussion, but I see no reason why it wouldnt be:
Im curious about how judges decide on speaker points. After looking at the LD and Policy packets from the Glenbrooks I noticed a startling disparity between speaker points in policy and LD, the top speaker in ld had a 149 h/l whereas the top speaker in policy had a 144.5 h/l which would have put her in 18th in ld. I have a *really* hard time believing that those 17 lders who out pointed her debated significantly better than her.
My question is: what does a 30 look like to judges? I had numerous people ask me this weekend, “what do i need to do to get a 30?” i dont know the answer to that question intuitively i think it means you have to be perfect. So in the rounds for the top 3 or 4 LD speakers this weekend were they perfect in the rounds they got 30′s in?
One of the things I hear often is that speaker points are relative. This doesnt make much sense to me, the way most people explain it is that a 30 at the Glenbrooks looks differently than a 30 at the local Minnesota tournament that happened the same weekend. My question is, if I see someone just roll someone and arguably debate perfect in the round, but knowing that their opponent was god awful and that in reality there was no way they would win more than 3 or 4 rounds at the tournament do i give them a 30, b/c in that round they were that good or do i give a 27.5 b/c compared to everyone else at the Glenbrooks theyre just average?
Posted from: 68.196.201.226
November 24th, 2008 16:54
JP! JP! JP!
Posted from: 68.17.147.198
November 24th, 2008 16:59
congrats natasha!!! the not an epic fail lab really isnt that much of an epic fail any more! haha lol
Posted from: 74.212.16.15
November 24th, 2008 17:05
@141
Im not a judge so I cant really truly answer your question. However, Im so glad that someone has finally decided to ask this question. Every tournament that I go too I see great debaters not clear solely because of speaker points. A lot of debaters I know, and I myself feel that speaker points are a completely relative (possibly arbitrary) concept. I also feel that its disappointing that so many tournaments put so much weight on the value of speaker points. At most tournaments many 4-2s do not clear because of low speaker pts. Though, if speaker points are not clearly defined then I feel they shouldn’t have that much of an impact.
One compromise I have witnessed was last year at the Manchester tournament. They cleared to partial doubles, which all down 2s cleared and the higher seeds received byes. I know this is something adopted by multiple tournaments, however I feel that this should be a paradigm that all tournaments shift too, since it would successfully relieve the weight of a very undefined concept.
Posted from: 160.39.157.230
November 24th, 2008 17:31
it seems like JVAR, if its what i understand it to be, is a better stat than speaker points since it depends on the judges’ other rounds. the only problem with it is that the debaters don’t have control of the other rounds that each judge judges so the judge could have judged really good rounds or really bad rounds but for a tournament like glenbrooks where rounds are probably protected based on records and judges it seems like this problem wouldn’t be too bad.
why is there so little emphasis on jvar or even opp wins (from nonpreset rounds)?
Posted from: 69.155.132.53
November 24th, 2008 18:11
Who won?
Posted from: 75.71.25.178
November 24th, 2008 18:28
Does anyone have an organized list of elimination rounds? Who beat who when?
Thanks
Posted from: 128.113.232.61
November 24th, 2008 18:34
jp is a baller
Posted from: 12.50.173.194
November 24th, 2008 18:34
For those interested:
Finals: Trinity Prep JN def. Upper St. Clair JG
Semifinals:
Upper St. Clair JG def. Mountain View DK
Trinity Prep JN def. Apple Valley CT
Posted from: 70.138.99.19
November 24th, 2008 18:49
re: daryl
my main problem is not with overgenerous speaker points relative to policy, but how much speaker points play a role in who clears when they are based largely on what judges are randomly assigned to you and how generous those judges are with speaks. there’s a big problem when someone is judging 10-14 flights (20-28 debaters) in prelims and handing out 29s or 30s to 10-20 of those debaters. because a lot (hopefully most) of judges are giving out only a handful of 29s every 10 flights (20 debaters) they judge (assuming they are judging the 3-0, 4-1, 5-1, 4-2, 6-0 powermatches). this discrepancy between judges is not a problem in itself. BUT, it is a problem when there are a ton of 5-2s not clearing on speaks. for a tournament like glenbrooks (180 entries) or mineapple (150 entries) or bronx to not clear a signiificant number of 5-2s because of speaks means that we should reevaluate how we determine breaks. schools are spending $1000s of dollars to travel to these tournaments and i think that if you are good enough to pull a 5-2, we should probably at least let almost all of these kids get one outround. this means that big tournaments (like glenbrooks) that break to doubles need to either start holding partial triples or limiting entries more where the pool is smaller and fewer 5-2s don’t clear. — (this is true of all tournaments, not just these three. i think the three mentioned are all great tournaments.)
also, probably more importantly, a system that places so much emphasis on speaks severely disadvantages kids without REP. no doubt that the kids with the most rep are great speakers, but there are a lot of people getting a lot of love even though they’re not great speakers. furthermore, the best debaters on the circuit have bad rounds. it’s ok for judges to give paul, chris, ben, ellen, shivani, danielle, jake, daniel, etc. a 27 every once in a while.
on a side note: ben holguin very much deserved top speaker based on the round i judged him. probably one of the best performances i’ve seen this year.
Posted from: 75.71.25.178
November 24th, 2008 18:53
Congratulations JP, (from your 6th Round Opponent.)
Posted from: 71.34.187.248
November 24th, 2008 18:58
nice job jp. well deserved.
Posted from: 165.123.227.30
November 24th, 2008 19:16
I just wanted to say congratulations to JP for such a great run. To go from your first national circuit debate round in September of ’07 to finals of the Glenbrooks in November of ’08 is pretty absurd. No one makes a jump like that without some serious hard work and dedication, so this is extremely well deserved. Thanks for being so fun to work with, and for making my job as a coach really easy.
Thanks also to Dan Meyers, who has been a huge help to JP at the tournaments I’ve been unable to attend (and even those I’ve been at).
Finally, congratulations to Jake on the repeat championship!
Posted from: 128.135.137.207
November 24th, 2008 19:21
Big ups to JPG
Posted from: 12.32.84.244
November 24th, 2008 19:36
Congrats to all, but especially to:
Jake on winning
JP on being fantastic; team PA has never been more proud
Chris on owning, as usual
Madeline on kicking some serious ass
CK for being CK
and Gurdane for doing an awesome job.
Really fun tournament :)
Posted from: 75.73.220.221
November 24th, 2008 20:01
Congrats Jake on the title, JP on finals, on to everyone else who cleared as well. This was a great tournament and a lot of fun to participate in.
Posted from: 75.73.220.221
November 24th, 2008 20:01
and to everyone else*
Posted from: 75.72.79.154
November 24th, 2008 20:06
Octas:
(1) Tyger d. (16) Shivani
(15) Madeline Vuong def. (2) Daniel Moerner
(19) Gurdane d. (3) holguin
(20) Ken d. (4) David
(21) Chris d. (5) Ross
(6) J.P. d (22) Keil
((7) dfk d. (23) dunay
(9) jake d. (25) marcus
quarters:
(9) jake d. (1) paul
(7) dfk d. (15) madeline
(6) jp d. (19) gurdane
(21) chris d. (20) ken
semis:
(9) jake d. (21) chris
(6) jp d. (7) dfk
Posted from: 71.195.49.123
November 24th, 2008 20:15
Wow, lots of congrats, especially to JP and Madeline for big break-outs (especially to Madeline, if I’m correctly informed, given the strat that got you your first bid in doubles ;-) ). And of course congrats to Jake for (unless my memory is horribly screwed up?) continuing the all-repeat-champs trend at octos bids.
Posted from: 68.35.78.185
November 24th, 2008 21:02
congratulations to nina rrose for going 5-2! (and ian as well for being a brilliant debater)
as well as ilya and eli. watching you guys was impressive.
and,
major major congratulations to cole vincent m. helsell for being 5th speaker in jv. first national tournament. impressive.
and finally,
to elora for also doing well in jv.
so, congrats abq academy and eli/ilya!
Posted from: 69.118.140.49
November 24th, 2008 21:16
Congrats to Matt, Ken, and Marcus for clearing V, and Jon for reaching semis in JV.
Also, huge congrats to JP for getting to finals!
Posted from: 206.251.74.247
November 24th, 2008 21:33
[...] The Glenbrooks: Semis — Finals: Trinity Prep’s Jake Nebel defeated Upper Saint Clair’s J.P. Gooderham on a 3-0 decision. J.V. Finals — Bronx Science’s Matt Ross defeated Barrington’s Natasha Thondavadi on a 2-1 decision. Villiger: Finals — Regis’s Coulter King defeated Stuyvesant’s Tom Sanford on a 2-1 decision. [...]
Posted from: 69.118.140.49
November 24th, 2008 21:41
major congrats to Matt for dubs, Marcus for octs, and Ken for quarters. also congrats to Bowyer for JV semis and to my brother Sahil for JV quarters.
Posted from: 72.130.138.114
November 24th, 2008 21:59
Congrats to DFK on Semis
Once again, a great tournament by the glenbrooks team.
Posted from: 216.171.248.2
November 24th, 2008 22:02
Maaajor props to Madeline on a very impressive showing.
Posted from: 71.195.49.123
November 24th, 2008 22:10
The big question on everyone’s mind now: How will Becca win Berkeley?? Will it involve a disguise? A suddenly discovered missing credit on her high school transcript? A rift in spacetime?
Posted from: 24.164.191.184
November 24th, 2008 23:56
congrats matt r, sahil, carolyn, saboor, waks, ben, dunay, matt, CK, paul, and especially JP. well done man.
Posted from: 24.164.191.184
November 24th, 2008 23:56
oh, and sasha for failing :)
Posted from: 63.238.152.11
November 25th, 2008 00:13
eric palmer,
please stop repping for kids that go to your camp like ken hershey and screwing over good debaters because they don’t debate like bots.
thanks,
the debate community
Posted from: 130.160.196.163
November 25th, 2008 01:12
I guess Eric forgot to hack for Ross over Chris in octas. Ross went to NSD after all. Woops.
Posted from: 24.6.159.5
November 25th, 2008 01:19
Concerned Citizen,
I do not want to meddle into anything, but because Eric has helped me grow a lot as a debater and as a person overall, I think it is important to give my two cents here.
Eric Palmer has been my coach for the past four years and I know him well enough to say that he does not rep for anyone. He values debate education and objective evaluation too much too vote for certain debaters based on their reputation.
I think it is incorrect to imply that debaters who attend a certain summer institution debate like “bots.” Every judge has their own paradigm of what a good debate should look like and there is no need for certain judges to forcefully impose their paradigm on others. Thus, it is up to the debaters to adapt to a judges’ paradigm.
In addition, calling debaters who attended a particular camp (regardless of whether the camp is VBI, NSD, NDF, etc.) disrespects the debaters who attended the camp. There is no need to bash high school students; keep the game on the court. Sure, we’ve all heard baseless accusations like “VBI hack” and “NSD hack” floating around debate tournaments, but at the end of the day, we are all part of one activity.
As a community, we should rise above tit for tat and silly accusations and focus on DEBATING. Tensions between coaches, judges, and camps can continue on forever, but such tensions will only worsen the activity for the people it means the most to: the debaters.
Respectfully,
Daniel Khalessi
Posted from: 69.118.137.26
November 25th, 2008 01:24
Concerned citizen:
1) Fuck you. Big time. If you are going to criticize someone on VBD, have the balls to attach your name to the post. Posting anonymously removes any ability for me, Eric, or anyone else who you attack to criticize you, point out hypocrisy, etc. What if you are some coach who is notorious for repping out? Or some random whose input on the round should not be valued above that of eric’s and prashant’s at all? I cannot definitively answer those two questions about your identity, but I can tell you this: you are a bitch for not attaching your name to your post.
2) It’s interesting that you think that Eric “reps for kids that go to his camp.” considering that there was another judge on the panel who voted for me, Prashant Rai. Is Prashant an NSD hack as well? I don’t know. For one thing, he dropped me in doubles of apple valley last year (when I was top seed) to the bottom seed, a student who went to VBI (on a 2-1 decision). That seems to deny any chance that he would just “rep” for me. If he would, why didn’t he in that round when I was the top seed?
In terms of Eric, your criticism is completely unfounded. Last year, Eric voted against my teammate (and attender of NSD), Marcus, at the TOC in favor of a VBI student and eliminated him from the tournament. He also, at this very tournament, voted in favor of Chris Theis against Ross Brown, in another very close round (2-1 decision). These are just two examples of many that come to mind right now. Again, if Eric, like Prashant, is a big NSD hack, why didn’t he just vote for the NSD debater in that close round as well?
3) I am glad that you feel entitled to speak out against notorious “hacks” like Eric Palmer on behalf of “the debate community.” You are aware of the fact that there are people out there who are considered VBI hacks as well, right? Or Texas hacks? Or Northeast hacks? Or critical theory hacks? The list goes on and on. Any debater who represents a particular school, region, camp, or even style has certain judges that they want to have, and it seems to me that most debaters resort to labeling everyone else a “hack”. This system is not ideal, and it sure is not improved by idiotic posts like yours accusing people of “repping for their camp” in close 2-1 rounds, making mutual animosity between camps worse.
Your comment about me “debating like a bot” does not dignify a response.
Posted from: 128.252.254.28
November 25th, 2008 02:27
ah yes the annual Glenbrooks flamewar is upon us
Posted from: 128.252.254.28
November 25th, 2008 02:32
also, how can you hack if Sean Wynn wins every round anyways
Posted from: 128.12.82.70
November 25th, 2008 02:55
Congrats to Matt Dunay for winning rounds…at the Glenbrooks.
Also congrats to Carolyn on semis, Dan and Tina for winning PF and especially to Saboor for clearing at another octas bid tournament. Nice work, sir.
And finally, congrats to Bronx’s rising star, Matt Ross. I will go ahead and make one of those obnoxious predictions: He will be dominant on the circuit next year.
Posted from: 192.195.154.225
November 25th, 2008 03:32
Concerned citizen:
Why do you care about palmer when pwneill was hacked against 3 times? get your mind right.
Posted from: 218.78.224.44
November 25th, 2008 04:15
hey remember when we were all congratulating people on doing well? that was cool, wasn’t it?
Barely a few hours since competition ends, and a “concerned citizen” decides their extremely important, purposeful, and completely resolvable grievance needs to be discussed. Seriously, if you have a problem with Eric, strike him. If that doesn’t do it maybe all the concerned citizens of the community and the Mountain View team can have a gratifying brawl in some alleyway at Emory. Until then, grow a pair, stop contributing to the dumb flamewar (remember back in the day when flame wars used to at least be witty?), and congratulate people who balled out this weekend. If you truly cannot contain yourself, then at least have this war on a different board or some crap so the rest of us don’t need to read the “X judge sucks” debate.
Congrats JP, looks like the hard work paid off. Jake, congrats on defending the championship. last year was impressive, and being able to repeat that deserves some serious props. Also, congrats to Jeff from Oak Mountain for clearing.
Posted from: 69.118.137.26
November 25th, 2008 05:14
what Weeks says is true – the intent of this thread is not to start talking about whether or not a judge “hacked” in my round. I do not want to steal the spotlight from JP and Jake at all – they are the ones who worked the hardest, and hence they deserve the attention.
so, congrats to JP and Jake. hopefully this conversation about “hacking” can end here.
Posted from: 24.27.38.35
November 25th, 2008 05:53
Just to add a definitive note to what Ken said:
posting anonymously and belligerently on an internet thread is not the way to voice your concern about a person or a decision. I’m unsure if I want to thank you for your “support,” since you’ve framed it rather childishly. I’m not going to get involved in this discussion any further, because Ken is right to say this is not the point of the thread. I will say though – if I see no need to continue this discussion online, my “defenders” should see no reason to either. Anyone who has an issue with Eric (or anyone for that matter) should attach a name to their accusations and present it like a civilized and confident member of the community. I’m not trying to pick sides in this, even though I’m sure I implicitly am on one side. Suffice to say, I harbor no ill will against Prashant or Ken (or the “concerned citizen”). I like you guys. The conflict being talked about is limited in its scope, and there’s no reason it should become a larger conflict in the community. Let’s be nice, guys.
Peace,
Andrew
Posted from: 24.27.38.35
November 25th, 2008 05:56
Also! Congrats to Devin, Ben, Ryan, Shivani, Paul, Madeline, Ken, Jake, and Chris, and wow like 10 other people. This tournament was superb, and everyone deserves a resounding congrats.
Posted from: 128.135.208.189
November 25th, 2008 06:12
props to JP, you know i love you man even if i make fun of you sometimes. you put in a ton of work and it paid off huge. and props to nebel, even though it’d be nice if someone else won an octas bid sometime.
concerning the concerned citizens, as david said strike him or talk to him. it is rather simple
Posted from: 66.196.19.74
November 25th, 2008 07:00
Congrats to all Texas people who did well… especially Madeline
Posted from: 68.51.75.8
November 25th, 2008 08:46
not gonna dignify the flame war
congrats to sdale crew for another enjoyable weekend. special props to JP and Jake, on rising to the top of what I think can easily be called the hardest tournament to date this year. Also, special props to Chris on a very close loss in semis. You know I still think you are an amazing debater, and wouldn’t be surprised in the least when you add a few more titles to your resume.
Posted from: 205.221.1.253
November 25th, 2008 09:15
Congrats to the Scarsdalians on a dominant team performance. Good job, JP, on a well-deserved final round appearance.
Theis can console himself that if this trend of 2nd year repeats continues, the TOC should go well. :)
Posted from: 67.169.127.123
November 25th, 2008 09:16
I think concerned debater is missing the more serious problem facing ld today: the good debater hacks. I mean seriously-good debaters are just getting voted for far too often. Every round at the TOC last year was run by a good debater, and it’s probably why there are so many repeat octos champions. So can judges please stop voting for debaters just because they’re good?
Seriously though, major congrats to everyone who did well this weekend, especially Uma, who almost broke JV. Good job!
Posted from: 70.138.99.19
November 25th, 2008 09:19
when you have 15+ strikes at a tournament, it’s pretty easy to strike all the people who you think will hack against you.
Posted from: 12.226.34.198
November 25th, 2008 10:13
I would just like to note that I voted for NSD 4/5 times in outrounds this weekend. Please strike me at your earliest convenience.
I also heard a rumor that Anjan is a huge NSD hack. You should also strik him.
Posted from: 209.181.228.22
November 25th, 2008 10:14
avi, I hope you’re not serious…
Posted from: 209.181.228.22
November 25th, 2008 10:16
Actually, Ernie, not only is Anjan a NSD hack, but he is a VBI/NSD/K/Theory/Good debater hack. I suggest that people strike him…
Posted from: 199.80.146.86
November 25th, 2008 10:55
Phelan, no I wasn’t. My sarcasm didn’t really show in the last post, so to clarify:
I was talking about the “problem” that judges too often vote for the debater who does better in round. I don’t mean to say that there are rep hacks.
Sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic but it kinda backfired…
Posted from: 66.75.244.56
November 25th, 2008 11:28
i’m the real NSD hack :(
Posted from: 209.181.228.22
November 25th, 2008 12:17
m’bad avi, it’s hard to pick up on sarcasm online
Posted from: 208.118.184.3
November 25th, 2008 14:00
The only thing I hack for are those monday breakfast burritos. Special thanks to Tara and Dan Meyers for making that happen once again.
Only because I know they troll this site, big props to Whitman ES on being in PF Finals. Thank god you did not use TBC’s child marginalization cards.
Posted from: 205.221.2.61
November 25th, 2008 14:22
Also – lest I forget – props to Natasha Thondavadi for making it to JV finals. What a great performance! Well done. The first of many late-out-round appearances, I’m certain.
Posted from: 128.62.153.107
November 25th, 2008 14:56
Regarding the online flaming of Eric Palmer:
Though I respectfully disagree with Weeks that the topic of this thread makes it an inappropriate place to discuss these issues, I do generally think that the nature of online postings makes it a shitty place to discuss anything substantive for too long. That is one of the reasons you’ll be hard pressed to find posts of mine in the archives of this website. However, given the possibility that I am inevitably in the middle of this debate and involved in the events that might have led someone to post unsubstantiated accusations against Eric, I feel obligated to intervene.
Eric and I are not best of friends. We disagreed about a round and, in a rare moment of my coaching career, I yelled at a judge, who yelled right back. The argument was less about the decision (as there was of course another judge voting for Ken in this close round) and more about an RFD. I do not regret confronting Eric with my opinions about his RFD. I would absolutely do it again under similar circumstances. And from our conversation, I think Eric would prefer the chance to hear the criticisms and be given a chance to respond. However, several issues need to be addressed in light of that incident and the appearance of references to that round in this thread
Let me be very fucking clear: If you flowed the round, then you are in a position to offer a justifiable opinion one way or the other on the decision and RFDs. If you were not in that round, shut the fuck up. Your opinions about whether the decision or the RFDs were right or wrong is utterly useless to us, since you will have nothing but second or third hand knowledge from which to justify those opinions. And in the least, you owe it to Ken who did not win merely by Eric’s single vote but of course also convinced Prashant). Ken is phenomenal and deserves more respect than was implicit in that anonymous post.
None of the people that have posted, minus Ken and Waks, were in that room, so none of you are in a position to attack or defend Eric. However, the defenses of Eric are much less troubling to me than the blippy attack by the anonymous poster.
Garber is quick to defend his coach, which, as his post explains, is motivated by the deeply positive impact he sees Eric as having made on his debating and life beyond debate. That a student feels that way in the least speaks to something good in his/her coach, which is why I’d like to say something about the third-parties that often suffer in these disputes. In this activity there are undeniable politics and mistreatment of others. Often times we all may not only disagree with a coach’s or judge’s view of debate, but also their character (which we might, of course, wrongly judge as poor). That’s fine and can turn into a healthy amount of criticism that we all can learn from. But far too often there is a spill over into how that coach’s students are treated—that is absolutely unacceptable. I realize that in this thread there hasn’t been an explicit spill over into attacking the people that Eric is associated with, but the talk of NSD hacking risks turning a criticisms leveled against Eric into a far too broad and unjustified attack on all those associated with that camp or even his students. Such over-generalization is fucking bullshit. I have a number of friends who do or have worked at NSD, who have my deepest respect as coaches and people. Ernie Rose, Weeks, Ari Parker, and Spirtos come quickly to mind. There are even more that, although I have not had the opportunity to become more than friendly acquaintances with, I hold in extremely high regard, both for their intelligence and character. Hess, Diehl, and Prashant come quickly to mind. I pref them because I trust them to make smart and honest decisions. Their diligence in making decisions, the clarity of their reasoning, and the positive impact they’ve made on debaters (including mine) who have been in their rounds has been more than sufficiently proven, in my opinion. All that to say, whether this discussion continues after my post is beyond my control but if people decide to continue it, do so recognizing that you ought be very very damn sure you don’t allow whatever opinion you have of Eric (or me) to be misapplied to other people.
As I said, the defenses of Eric’s RFD are less troubling to me, although no one so far posting, other than Ken and Waks, is in a position to substantively speak to that RFD. What is very troubling to me is the attack on Eric that comes from someone who likely did not see the round or has completely failed to offer any evidence that the RFD was ill-informed or that his vote was an act of hacking for NSD. I have an opinion because I flowed the round, which is in part formed with reference to experiences I’ve had over the last 5 or 6 years that I’ve been coaching. Eric and I argued about that, but I, unlike those who might attack him on this thread, gave him my reasons and Eric responded. The key here is that Eric got a chance to hear a justification for my opinion and a chance to respond. Nothing about the way this discussion has or can occur on this thread will give him that chance because the debate will become about vague impressions and images of him that spread through some corners of this community, rather than specific events or specific reasons justifying (or refuting) those vague impressions. He will never be able to sufficiently defend himself in that situation and so whether you all come to dismiss the accusations or believe them will not reflect an informed and tested judgment. So all that to say, shut the fuck up.
That round and the subsequent argument between he and I will likely be discussed by people, and I think it should be. I think if you want to call someone out, you do it in person and in public—part of the reason why being that that person deserves the chance to publicly respond and challenge the picture of their character being painted. Additionally, public call-outs also hold the one making the criticisms (in this case, me) responsible to the community. So Eric and I argued, publicly and then semi-publicly. As I told Eric, I’m very open to my view being wrong and if future experiences show that to be the case I’ll be the first to apologize publicly. But an online flaming of him will never help verify or invalidate accusations and Eric’s reputation. He deserves to be treated better than that, in my opinion. So the online flaming is bullshit and ought stop now.
And that’s all I have to say.
–Kris Wright
Posted from: 66.108.128.126
November 25th, 2008 15:25
hacking or no hacking, the glenbrooks is a tournament which is quite literally unbelievably efficient and well-run overall. So, props to the GBS and GBN debate teams as well as those who helped run the tournament.
congrats are in order to: Saboor for clearing, Dunay for bid number four, Dan and Tina for winning the freaking tournament (in pf), and Carolyn for making it to semis. Also congrats to Dylan for a winning record in the varsity pool, Sasha for being so close to breaking, Steph Haven for repping Lewis/Mcgough, and Bowyer for not only making it to semis but giving me a very close semis round, and Sahil for quarters.
Posted from: 24.6.159.5
November 25th, 2008 15:31
“Garber is quick to defend his coach, which, as his post explains, is motivated by the deeply positive impact he sees Eric as having made on his debating and life beyond debate.”
The defense of Eric was made by me; not Garber.
Posted from: 24.155.240.186
November 25th, 2008 15:43
My apologies, Daniel. The point still remains that your passionate defense demonstrates something good about Eric and should remind those engaging in criticisms to respect the value of that relationship, in the least by not generalizing their opinions (whether right or wrong) to Eric’s students, those working at NSD, or other debaters that Eric has positively affected.
–kris
Posted from: 69.118.137.26
November 25th, 2008 16:50
thanks to Kris and Andrew for their supportive posts. In my initial response, I knew that neither of them would ever make a post like that. We disagreed about the decision (and still do, probably), but we did/do so civilly. That is the type of discourse that the debate community should foster, not unsubstantiated anonymous accusations of hacking.
Posted from: 68.90.47.146
November 25th, 2008 17:00
as usual, so many congratulations. congrats to saboor, devin, and andrew, as well as matt ross and stephanie haven, and of course jake for another impressive performance. i would also like to give props to my brother for making his first post on vbd…which is probably not a good sign.
Posted from: 24.6.159.5
November 25th, 2008 17:41
congrats to ken, andrew, gurdane, jp, marcus, jake, madeleine,my teammates, and everyone else I’m forgetting.
Posted from: 24.90.130.140
November 25th, 2008 18:38
Hey Matt Ross, Matt Dunay, Saboor, Carolyn, Daniel and Tine, congrats to all. And you too Jake!
GO BRONX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted from: 24.90.130.140
November 25th, 2008 18:39
Congrats to Andrew too!
Posted from: 69.151.221.97
November 25th, 2008 18:52
congrats to Jake, J.P., Matt Ross,and Wes Craven.
Posted from: 71.60.209.85
November 25th, 2008 18:59
Thanks to everyone for the kind words.
A special congrats to Jake for having an awesome tournament and capturing another title. Good work to Theis, Ken, DFK, Ross, CK, and Gurdane as well.
The tab staff and the student force of GBN and GBS kids should also be thanked for running an extremely efficient, fun tournament.
Posted from: 12.216.167.34
November 25th, 2008 20:00
Did anyone else notice the GBS ballot runners doing wind sprints? Why don’t MY kids do that? Valley has ballot mosey-ers.
Posted from: 68.104.1.44
November 25th, 2008 20:15
The answer, Dave, is competitive spirit. Tate rigged the staffs of the two ballot pits and they naturally started challenging each other. There was actually an official timer at the main ballot table. I have NO IDEA what was at stake other than pride, but man did they make tabbing a lot easier.
Posted from: 71.190.115.40
November 25th, 2008 21:10
MAJOR CONGRATS TO:
MATT ROSS!!!
TINA AND DAN!!!
MATT DUNAY!!
SABOOR SHEERAZI!!
ANDREW AND REGAN!!
Posted from: 98.27.222.187
November 26th, 2008 13:34
Congrats to DFK on another solid showing and JP on a major breakout. Nice work to Jake for cementing himself as one of the best regular season debaters in recent memory. Also, in JV congrats to Natasha and Kanisha. It looks like Barrington has a nice future in store.
As for the mini-flame war: a team I dropped got mad about the decision. An apparent fan of theirs got mad too. There is nothing exceptional about that and certainly nothing worth posting about. People often get mad about losing rounds, and sometimes they accuse judges who drop them of being hacks. I have no idea why that is exciting.
Posted from: 68.90.47.146
November 26th, 2008 17:16
to #200,
its not my first pot lol, just my first on a main thread
Posted from: 68.90.47.146
November 26th, 2008 17:16
post*
Posted from: 66.242.86.6
November 26th, 2008 19:35
I for one find it hugely exciting, and I’m deeply disappointed that more of you aren’t committed to having a four-week long, in-depth discussion of why Eric is such a hack.
Posted from: 76.186.244.15
November 26th, 2008 22:28
Congratulations to Andrew, Ken, Madeline, Jake, JP, Chris, and everyone else that did well or had fun (I find that the more important of the two).
I think it is important to realize that
1. Kris is right
2. Palmer is right.
3. Kris is a hack
4. Kris is legit
5. Palmer is a hack
6. Palmer is legit
and most importantly, Ken and Andrew are complete hacks.
Seriously though, this was a round between two people that i like a great deal, and the coaches involved were two people i like a great deal, and am relatively good friends with. I have had many in depth and frighteningly nerdy philosophical discussions with both of these fine gentlemen, and find the personal attacks on them a bit disgusting. They are hacks, so am I, and so is Moerner (sorry man, the truth is out)
Posted from: 75.25.136.243
November 26th, 2008 22:39
This thread makes me miss the old lddebate.org. This “flame war” pales in comparison to the epic post-tournament fights we used to see between Debater 1984, Churchill PS and crew.
Also, some decisions I remember: finals was a 3-0 (Sheehan, Hogan, Diehl), semis between JP and Daniel was a 2-1 (Hogan, Sheehan, *Jain), and quarters between Ken and Chris was a 2-1 (Sheehan, Nelson, *Gil).
Posted from: 71.139.11.48
November 27th, 2008 00:02
I’m obviously a hack.
Posted from: 24.6.37.9
November 27th, 2008 00:18
“To post on Westman was the thing back then.
And even when you logged off, you logged back in.”
Posted from: 75.36.125.107
November 27th, 2008 01:38
For the record, I called the Nebel/Theis round before it started. I called the 2-1 for Nebel with Spirtos as the squirrel. Mezz and Scoggin can back me up on that. That being said, double turns ftw!
Posted from: 75.36.125.107
November 27th, 2008 01:42
oh and scholastic integrity ftw too. (referring to the Nebel/Noble round)
Posted from: 68.175.94.216
November 27th, 2008 03:47
Awesome job Matt Ross for winning JV and to Carolyn for reaching semis!
Congrats to Matt Dunay on his 4th bid to the TOC!
Posted from: 98.218.230.121
November 27th, 2008 06:45
oh and fanboys watching outrounds they will never debate in ftw too (referring to Tim M.)
Posted from: 70.118.127.70
November 27th, 2008 09:33
I dedicate both Glenbrooks titles to the Confederate States of America. Huzzah!
Posted from: 70.56.13.3
November 27th, 2008 09:39
here here!
Posted from: 70.189.117.250
November 27th, 2008 09:42
we emailed diltz(sp?) and he was like “holla use it” so if you want me to forward it to you let me know
Posted from: 75.35.210.38
November 27th, 2008 10:37
the return of the confederacy
Posted from: 71.82.121.134
November 27th, 2008 11:08
It will rise again!
Posted from: 24.1.89.118
November 27th, 2008 12:24
with the strength of a thousand stallions!huzzah!
Posted from: 68.97.13.226
November 27th, 2008 13:28
YEAH
Posted from: 24.12.193.28
November 27th, 2008 13:36
you know that episode of south park where cartman starts screaming “RACE WAR” and then nothing happens after that. that’s what this “flame war” was. the troll usually has to post more than once for it to be a real flame war.
until the next epic battle…
Posted from: 68.126.2.128
November 28th, 2008 00:27
anjan, that wasn’t funny.
Posted from: 66.91.82.161
November 28th, 2008 00:56
leave it to tim to announce a factoid that he was right about to everyone who reads VBD.
Posted from: 98.218.230.121
November 28th, 2008 08:24
I continue to wonder why people post anon on this site. But, what’s more, I continue to wonder why people post anon when they have post NON-anon from the SAME IP.
Isn’t that correct, Jesse Franklin-Murdock from Iolani? Glad to hear that Hawaii has a view on the Glenbrooks tournament.
Posted from: 75.67.219.33
November 28th, 2008 08:41
That last post had the feeling of the ending of an episode of Scooby Doo.
Posted from: 71.60.209.85
November 28th, 2008 09:05
Anjan: the hack, the sleuth, the legend.
Posted from: 66.91.82.161
November 28th, 2008 12:04
you caught me anjan.
tim, i am sorry for the anon post, but i doubt it was a fraction as mean as another post beginning by calling you a fanboy.
i also think you said enough dick things to me at camp to justify an anon post.
i am not that embarrassed about this. My anon post frankly was not that mean. If you compare that post to 3/4 of the anononymous posts on VBD, you will mine to be far less mean, far less hurtful, and far less crude. Look at all posts that insult phelan.
If you all want to think I am a bad person for posting a mild insult under an anonymous name, go right ahead, but I think that that would be silly and shortsighted. I did something juvenile, and I apologized.
Posted from: 71.195.49.123
November 28th, 2008 13:41
Anjan ftw. And ya, this was definitely a wussy and very disappointing flame war. I can’t remember the last time we had an actually decent flame war, come to think of it, and that’s just sad.
Posted from: 71.176.213.169
November 28th, 2008 16:40
i like my child marginalization cards
they are so chill
Posted from: 75.36.154.255
November 28th, 2008 18:41
Iolani is trying to flame Anjan? Focus on beating Punahou first
(hawaii references kekeke)
Posted from: 66.91.82.161
November 28th, 2008 19:17
sean,
I have never met you, but Chad Shomura has told me about you. You seem like a cool guy, so you should know that at no point on this thread did I “flame Anjan.” I was also not even accused of doing so. I posted a snide comment about someone I went to camp with and Anjan called me out for it.
Oh, and who is Punahou? :P
Jesse
Posted from: 71.34.187.89
November 28th, 2008 20:05
what the fuck is going on
Posted from: 75.36.154.255
November 28th, 2008 20:07
I didn’t even read the thread. Calm down!
Posted from: 76.113.135.99
November 28th, 2008 20:16
The term “flame war” is so gay.
Posted from: 75.42.196.69
November 28th, 2008 20:37
@ Anjan: ouch… not too sure if I deserved that one… Especially when I’m not a fanboy… Like I pick the Nebel/Theis Semi over the DFK/JP semi… that really makes me a fanboy?
@Hawaii: two popped collars ftl. ’nuff said
Posted from: 67.159.44.63
November 28th, 2008 22:38
I am in the same boat as Maeshal. When did this flame war happen (that the Hawaiian kid came clean about)?
Was it a secret flamewar? A mini flamewar? A staged flamewar?
This thread just became way more intense.
Posted from: 71.212.144.17
November 28th, 2008 23:13
Was this a flame war? I seemed to have missed the hot fire, except for person formerly known as Taylor AC ripping off the mask of a fake Batman. Dude’s so baller he probably didn’t have to even take a break from a billable hour to force you to cower with apologia.
Congrats to all debaters and judges who did well at the Brooks. Non congrats go out to those who drink Haterade. I guess they still sell that at tournaments along with $3.00 pizza slices.
michelin massey
Posted from: 24.1.89.118
November 28th, 2008 23:59
$3 pizza slices ftw
Posted from: 69.151.9.188
November 29th, 2008 00:25
You guys are amateurs
Love,
Debater1984
Posted from: 70.118.127.70
November 29th, 2008 07:06
Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?
Posted from: 98.14.255.196
November 29th, 2008 08:16
I kinda sorta miss Sam’s Westman persona.
Posted from: 24.7.71.153
November 29th, 2008 13:20
[ ] Thread Of The Year
Posted from: 67.159.44.63
November 29th, 2008 15:00
Personally, I am not surprised about the decline in the quality and sheer number of flamewars on this site.
Think about it. With the ever-increasing proliferation of tactics like speed, theory, and a prioris, debaters don’t even care about addressing relevant issues nowadays. It is only logical that the primary message board of debaters would see a similar decline in the quality of discussion.
Nice work folks.
Posted from: 75.25.136.243
November 29th, 2008 16:27
While we’re on the subject, can we get a war stories thread? Grab Michelin, Cherian, and co. and get them to tell us about the times Tom Clancy put out 65 in the NC and Tom Pryor covered it (going slow), or how Josh Anderson won by MBA by defeating an epic Apple Valley prep-out, or how Ari Simon won TOC by pre-empting his opponent’s 2NR in the AC. Cruz?
Posted from: 24.12.193.28
November 29th, 2008 16:27
trolls ftw
Posted from: 12.226.34.198
November 29th, 2008 20:39
Is there a way to find the fifty page thread dedicated to Big Johnson?
Posted from: 24.1.89.118
November 29th, 2008 21:51
a war story thread would be cool
Posted from: 67.80.215.195
November 29th, 2008 23:16
I agree.
Posted from: 12.216.167.34
November 30th, 2008 14:18
Ask Ernie about the time I debated Guam at NFLs.