Bainbridge Closes Out Whitman College Tourney
WALLA WALLA, Wash. — The Whitman College Invitational’s final round didn’t occur this year because both of the finalists hailed from the same program: Bainbridge High School. Lizzie Sivitz and Lauren Greenawalt met in the final round; Lizzie had coached over teammate Jimmy Mooney in her semifinal round. Congratulations to all three debaters on a fantastic weekend in Washington State!
Lizzie and Lauren (and Jimmy) are coached by Jeff Kingshott.
LINCOLN-DOUGLAS DEBATE
QUARTERS
Bainbridge LS advances without debating
Arlington AS def. Bainbridge KH (Kramer Hudgens)
2-1 (Michael Stovern, Scott Mercer, *Jeff Blain)
Bainbridge JM def. Tahoma Senior SP (Sean Micheal Peerenboom)
3-0 (Chris Coovert, Brad Thew, Joel Clements)
Bainbridge LG def. Gonzaga Prep DS (David Smentek)
2-1 (Michael Stovern, Scott Mercer, *Jeff Blain)
SEMIS
Bainbridge LG def. Arlington AS (Amy Smith)
2-1 (Michael Stovern, Colby Easton, *Chris Coovert)
Bainbridge LS over Bainbridge JM (Jimmy Mooney)
FINALS
Bainbridge LG and Bainbridge LS close out.
CO-CHAMPIONS
Bainbridge LG (Lauren Greenawalt)
Bainbridge LS (Lizzie Sivitz)
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49 Responses to “Bainbridge Closes Out Whitman College Tourney”
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Posted from: 206.251.74.247
November 1st, 2008 11:09
[...] Manchester — Octas Iowa Caucus — Live Coverage (Results on Saturday & Sunday) Whitman — [...]
Posted from: 74.85.75.145
November 1st, 2008 13:03
Yeah BI!!!
Posted from: 206.251.74.247
November 1st, 2008 14:15
[...] Octas, PF & CX Quarters Iowa Caucus — Live Coverage (Results on Saturday & Sunday) Whitman — Finals: Bainbridge’s Lizzie Sivitz and Lauren Greenawalt closed out. (Lizzie coached [...]
Posted from: 24.215.162.120
November 1st, 2008 14:44
Jimmy and Lauren #1! congrats!
Posted from: 24.164.191.184
November 1st, 2008 15:41
Congrats Lauren
Posted from: 98.14.255.196
November 1st, 2008 15:59
Three of the nicest and coolest people in debate! Congratulations to all!
Posted from: 209.242.151.18
November 1st, 2008 21:17
Yay!! Lizzie and Lauren :)
Posted from: 207.108.55.160
November 1st, 2008 21:34
Grats Jimmy, Lauren, and Lizzie, you guys are all beasts.
Posted from: 98.201.60.162
November 1st, 2008 23:16
congrats jimmy.
love,
john johnson lab
Posted from: 206.107.221.16
November 2nd, 2008 00:51
Congratulations Lauren!!
Posted from: 76.22.99.233
November 2nd, 2008 03:43
Bainbridge……wooo woooo…..
You three deserve it.
Posted from: 208.120.131.125
November 2nd, 2008 08:40
grats on clearing kramer!
Posted from: 70.116.19.103
November 2nd, 2008 09:57
congrats james p. mooney IV
Posted from: 24.120.60.99
November 2nd, 2008 11:29
was there a bid here?
Posted from: 24.22.226.60
November 2nd, 2008 12:21
Congrats to L-Grenz and Jimmay-Bonez, the best teammates a girl could ask for.
yeah, generally there is a bid here in finals.
Posted from: 98.125.229.146
November 2nd, 2008 16:03
was there for real a bid at finals?
Posted from: 98.225.13.239
November 2nd, 2008 16:09
Yes there was, Jimmy got a ghost bid, so there were three bids handed out…just check out the article in VB daily awhile back about J.W. Patterson releasing the bid levels.
Posted from: 98.195.66.198
November 2nd, 2008 16:10
yes there was a finals ld bid with 22 entries
Posted from: 67.182.133.107
November 2nd, 2008 17:13
Yeah, whitman does the divisions oddly. The 22 people is misleading because there is a senior and a champ division as opposed to open. So all in all there is novice junior senior and champ The intent is that it will make it more competitive because all of the 22 people will be at a high level.
Posted from: 98.150.248.115
November 2nd, 2008 17:31
since bainbridge ls did not debate a single out round (advanced w/o debating in quarters, coach over in semis, close out in finals), doesn’t that disqualify her from a bid per TOC rules?
this isn’t about the ppl who bid, but imo, a tournament that cant even break to quarters should not be a bid tournament. especially when there are a total of 4 outrounds debated in the entire tournament. especially when there are 22 competitors. especially when there are texas tournaments each week that are 10X more competitive.
Posted from: 98.195.66.198
November 2nd, 2008 17:45
i.e. memorial houston which is a finals bid that has like over a 100 with multiple people that went to it last year that went to the TOC
Posted from: 98.150.248.115
November 2nd, 2008 17:48
exactly.
whereas this tournament is less-than-average local circuit with a friend at the TOC comittee. Move the bids to harker if they want to keep them on the west coast.
Posted from: 24.22.226.60
November 2nd, 2008 18:01
The TOC bid is not the most important thing to me by any means, but the tournament director assured us that he would talk to JW. there’s really no need for negativity, you need 2 bids anyway. It was a fun tournament and I am extremely proud of all the competitors!
Posted from: 98.150.248.115
November 2nd, 2008 18:12
i prefaced my comments by saying that this was about the bid level, not about the competitors.
there is a need for negativity when 3 ppl bid in a field of 22 with one school making up half the rounds and one competitor not debating a single outround and partial quarters.
yes, there would be 2 bids anyway, but as we have established, there are tournaments that are far more deserving of bids.
Posted from: 24.22.226.60
November 2nd, 2008 18:36
OK, well then next year perhaps Whitman shouldn’t get a bid, or maybe this will inspire more people to come to Whitman and the pool won’t be “less-than-average” anymore. I suggest you take this up with the TOC committee. And once again, checks on bidding exist, like the need to bid twice. Just relax about it, and don’t try to dampen the happiness of all the debaters at the tournament.
Posted from: 98.195.66.198
November 2nd, 2008 18:42
but the fact is its not attracting people with the bid and its not about the debaters. its about the fact of the hard-working relentless other debaters that work their butt of to even get to a bid round at st. marks or greenhill and their effort is masked because they can only go to those tournaments where the field is much over 22 and has hard competitors.
Posted from: 98.150.248.115
November 2nd, 2008 18:46
those two bids should have been at harker, UT, memorial houston, or scores of other cali or TX tournaments THIS YEAR.
Posted from: 63.164.47.227
November 2nd, 2008 18:49
fyi… the bid at whitman was reduced from last year; it was a semis bid last year and a finals bid this year.
Posted from: 67.182.133.107
November 2nd, 2008 18:50
Woot! Woot! Woof! Woof! Lizzie Sivitz rules as top-seed, top-performer!
Posted from: 209.30.247.182
November 2nd, 2008 18:51
Anon- “I’m a man! I’m 40! COME AFTER ME!!!”
Congrats to Bainbridge.
Posted from: 98.225.13.239
November 2nd, 2008 22:25
dude, anon (I’m assuming kind of like “Prince” or “Nene”): Whitman is a highly competitive tournament, and this year it fell on the same date as other tournaments, making it a less full tournament. Now you can complain all you want, but the truth is if Whitman combined Open and Champ divisions, there would have been close to 70, which would have been larger than last year, however, it would have brought into the pool debaters who either a.) aren’t ready for champ or b.) don’t want to go champ and deal with certain undesirable elements of it. Also, you have to consider the region and the kind of questionable judging that would be pulled up for champ division. Numbers were down, but it’s a great tournament, well run, and has some of the nicest kids around competing (maybe you should have come and taken all the bids single-handedly).
Posted from: 71.236.138.137
November 2nd, 2008 23:08
David: Let’s create 10 divisions and limit Champ to four debaters. That way only the top four debaters will be competing for a finals bid. It would make sure that those other debaters didn’t have to deal with those undesirable elements of champ division. We could chose the best two judges and just go straight to semi finals.
Can the division right above novice be called the “Denis Kucinich and Ron Paul” division.
On a serious note, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed Whitman in the past but I just don’t understand why it has four divisions. TOC bid tournaments just can’t have about a seventh of the pool walking away with a bid–Pool’s need to be collapsed, or if adding the open division wouldn’t help boost the competitiveness of the champ division then bids need to be pulled next year. Alternatively, the tournament could be moved to a non-SAT day (college board doesn’t hide their test dates) or day when it isn’t being out competed by other tournaments.
P.S. Congratulations to all the BI kids–I believe you all entirely deserve the bids and would be surprised if you don’t go on to collect others this year.
Posted from: 98.150.248.115
November 2nd, 2008 23:23
@david
nice kids and a well-run tournament are not sufficient criteria for a tournament with a finals bid to the toc. additionally the fact that there were only 22 debaters who were ready to debate a varsity level only proves my point that there should be no bid at whitman.
lol @ earl’s modest proposal…but seriously, he has a point.
Posted from: 207.200.116.74
November 2nd, 2008 23:43
Here are my thoughts on the tournament –
First, congrats to the BI kids. Regardless of the bid controversy, you all def had an impressive showing this weekend.
Second, I also agree that the size of the pool was a problem, especially because of how many competitors were from the same school. Bainbridge had six debaters (about a quarter of the pool), four of which made it to partial quarters, which forced tab to break brackets and give Lizzie the bye (she was second seed). This created a scenario where Lizzie was not first seed going into outrounds, but was still able to float through two rounds to place first because of the ratio of her teammates to the overall pool. While we can never be sure with certainty, a larger pool probably would have been able to check this to some extent by having more debaters with winning records and thus allowing outround brackets to be filled out more.
Let me make it clear — I am NOT saying that Lizzie doesn’t deserve her bid or that she didn’t deserve the win. It’s not a matter of who got the bid or who didn’t get the bid. I do think that at a TOC bid tournament, though, it shouldn’t be possible for a person to get a bid without even debating a single outround. There’s not much that really could’ve been done for this year, but I hope that this is something that’s taken into consideration as Jim Hanson is planning next year’s tournament.
Posted from: 75.36.127.0
November 2nd, 2008 23:57
Congrats to Lauren! way to rep the LDVE Lab!
Posted from: 24.22.226.60
November 3rd, 2008 01:00
Yeah Amy, you’re absolutely right. I would have loved the opportunity to debate in out-rounds, that was out of my hands though. I am more proud about success at the tourney than getting the bid (tentatively) and the fact that Bainbridge broke 4 people. Wether or not Whitman gets the bid next year is up to the TOC alone, so we shall see, it should of course be discussed.
Posted from: 68.126.0.34
November 3rd, 2008 01:51
great job to lizzie!
great job to jimmy!
the other bid was illegit.
btw, it’s not the fault of the washington debaters that there are not many great competitors on the northwest circuit. they deserve access to bids too, even if they’re not as hard to get — that’s why there are only a few bids up there (2 so far in washington vs 36+ so far in texas).
Posted from: 98.150.248.115
November 3rd, 2008 01:58
@ mezzatesta
TOC is not about geographic representation. thats why we got nfl and cfl. there are way more bids in texas than in washington because debate in texas is far more competitive. the reason there are 36 bids in texas is because there are well over 36 amazing debaters in texas and a dozen great tournaments. a semis bid like UT is way harder than most quarters bids and even an octas bid or two. meanwhile whitman is basically a local circuit scrimmage. i just think its ridiculous that 3 debaters have access to bids at a tournament like whitman while debaters in TX and Cali are competing for much harder bids.
Posted from: 69.48.155.2
November 3rd, 2008 08:17
Anon,
I think the real reason no one really is taking your arguments to heart is the fact that you are anonymous. Just a thought
Posted from: 168.212.247.7
November 3rd, 2008 10:19
Calling Whitman a local circuit scrimmage is patently abusrd. It is bascially a coming together of 5 local circuits minimally: the Seattle area, Spokane area, Boise area, Portland area and southern Oregon. Last year there were close to twice as many people in champ, and I’m sure it will bounce back next year. I am considering suggesting to Jim Hanson that he elimiante the senior division, but I understand the value in giving as many kids as possible the chance to succeed and paritipate in out rounds as well.
Posted from: 65.125.82.250
November 3rd, 2008 12:41
Anon-
As far as I understand it the TOC committee makes a concerted effort to ensure that kids in all parts of the country are affored opportunities to compete for a bid in their geographic area.
I coach in Texas and competed here and I find it hard to make an argument for Texas as lacking in bids. We have a ton. Does a tournament like Grapevine perhaps warrant a quarters bid? Maybe so, but Texas kids have a ton of opportunites to bid, which recognizes that there are a lot of competitive kids in the state.
Congrats to the Bainbridge kids! Ignore the haters
Posted from: 24.7.71.153
November 3rd, 2008 15:03
IP ban on anon plz.
the toc committee has interpreted advancing through an outround as a win for purposes of ghost bids on numerous occasions. people should not be punished for being a high enough seed to clear through a partial outround and saying otherwise is stupid.
Posted from: 72.213.162.95
November 3rd, 2008 17:36
Expressing an opinion in the way he did does not deserve an ip ban… You calling an idea stupid denies Mills Marketplace of Ideas… And his post seemed polite enough to me.
Posted from: 72.213.162.95
November 3rd, 2008 17:42
Well, maybe not to polite, but certainly more polite than many others on this website.
Posted from: 75.36.127.0
November 3rd, 2008 20:48
@anon
it’s a self perpetuating cycle… Texas tournaments get bids because Texas debaters are good and Texas debaters are good because they can go to so many bid tournaments… see the loop? makes it harder for some in say… the Northwest to compete on the same level.
Posted from: 68.126.0.34
November 3rd, 2008 21:08
DAVID SMENTEK IS A GOD AMONGST MERE MORTALS
Posted from: 66.91.82.161
November 3rd, 2008 22:18
congrats to Lauren on the W.
way to rep LDVE
Posted from: 150.212.2.138
November 4th, 2008 21:22
WHITMAN IS OBVIOUSLY ILLEGITIMATE, I DID NOT CHAMPION IT ONE SINGLE YR. NEITHER DID BARACK OBAMA.
DAPS TO BRAIN ISLAND.
Posted from: 98.225.17.152
November 7th, 2009 16:23
CONGRATULATIONS JIMMY MOONEY ….so PROUD of you !!!