Archer Round Robin Unveiled
SANTA MONICA, Cali. — Stephen Babb has announced the fourteen competitors in the Archer Round Robin, to be held the day prior to the Victory Briefs Tournament on the campus of the Archer School for Girls. (VBT itself will be held at UCLA on its first day, and at Brentwood School on its second.) Please join me in congratulating and wishing the very best of luck to these fourteen debaters!
Isaac Bloch — Berkeley Carroll School (NY)
Ben Clancy — Westwood High School (TX)
Lindsay Dolan — The Hockaday School (TX)
David Donatti — Strake Jesuit College Preparatory School (TX)
Vivian Feig — Torrey Pines High School (CA)
Joan Gass — The Hockaday School (TX)
Ben Holguin — Edina High School (MN)
Todd Liipfert — Strake Jesuit College Preparatory School (TX)
David McNeil — Edina High School (MN)
Jake Nebel — Trinity Preparatory School (FL)
Ellen Noble — Walt Whitman High School (MD)
Courtney Nunley — Northland Christian School (TX)
Ravi Sankar — Trinity Preparatory School (FL)
Ben Schifberg — South Eugene High School (OR)
Popularity: 3%
test
Posted from: 69.118.235.253
December 31st, 2007 09:33
good luck brothers ben jake ravi and david
Posted from: 68.44.253.125
December 31st, 2007 10:23
congrats and good luck to isaac, lindsay, jake, and ellen!
Posted from: 64.12.116.76
December 31st, 2007 10:47
Good luck vivian and ellen
Shut ‘em down. Take it home.
Posted from: 72.66.68.167
December 31st, 2007 10:47
Good luck Ellen!!
Posted from: 71.191.28.254
December 31st, 2007 10:47
Good Luck Ellen!!
Posted from: 69.140.159.61
December 31st, 2007 10:49
Congrats Ellen!
Posted from: 69.255.7.123
December 31st, 2007 10:50
Congrats and good luck, Ellen!!
Posted from: 72.66.67.125
December 31st, 2007 10:51
Good luck ellen and vivian!
Posted from: 75.73.208.213
December 31st, 2007 11:07
Way to go, Ben! Congrats and good luck - I know that you’ll win!!!
Posted from: 75.73.219.166
December 31st, 2007 11:07
Thanks David, I’m sure you’ll do great!
Posted from: 65.33.216.205
December 31st, 2007 11:13
Ben and David are the best!!!
Posted from: 75.73.208.213
December 31st, 2007 11:14
Thanks Jake, you’re awesome!! Good luck and I hope you do great in the round robin!!!
Posted from: 75.73.208.213
December 31st, 2007 11:15
Unless we have to debate each other, of course!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOL
Posted from: 74.68.51.212
December 31st, 2007 11:20
Congrats Ravi
Posted from: 67.169.92.242
December 31st, 2007 12:10
vBi 07 rEpPin!!!!
gO fIgHt wIn…
Posted from: 129.15.131.248
December 31st, 2007 12:48
no Scarsdale?
Posted from: 72.130.138.114
December 31st, 2007 12:58
congrats vivian
Posted from: 66.233.57.238
December 31st, 2007 13:00
sick nasty brawl steez.
Posted from: 72.75.79.85
December 31st, 2007 13:26
good luck, Ellen, and congrats!
Posted from: 74.54.131.194
December 31st, 2007 13:38
[...] Original post by Victory Briefs Daily and software by Elliott Back [...]
Posted from: 12.208.215.81
December 31st, 2007 14:35
THERE IS SO MUCH METMZANIA ON THIS THREAD
THE METZMANIACS WILL SEARCH AND DESTROY BABY
Posted from: 72.66.67.112
December 31st, 2007 14:42
good luck ellen!
Posted from: 129.15.131.248
December 31st, 2007 14:48
NO NSD?!?!….dubya-tee-eff
Posted from: 24.12.175.184
December 31st, 2007 14:56
NSD is dominating MBA so no worries mr wynn
Posted from: 24.12.175.184
December 31st, 2007 14:59
oh, also, im not gonna be able to judge for vivian in the RR in case anyone needed to know….
GO VIVIAN!! (g’luck to everyone else obviously, lol. but especially to david donnati and todd liipfert)
Posted from: 129.15.131.248
December 31st, 2007 17:23
Moretit and Mershey seem very qualified for the RR though
Posted from: 75.73.191.176
December 31st, 2007 18:04
good luck ben, david, jake
Posted from: 68.98.109.16
December 31st, 2007 20:51
I’m in Mesa for winter break - if you need a judge, I’d just need housing - otherwise, see everyone at VBT.
Posted from: 76.17.171.188
December 31st, 2007 22:38
MBA is fully dominated by NSD ppl…only half is NSD, but does that mean that VBI, the highly prestigious and legitimate institute of nat’l circuit debate, should take its anger out on NSD ppl and make sure none get invited? Mr. Moretit, Mr. Mershey, Mr. Khalessi, Mr. Rebarrr, and Mr. Catterton should have gotten invites. If I had to choose between world peace and giving invites to these people I would have to choose the latter, because that would lead to world peace. I never taught at NSD so I = objective. I thought VBI was tolerant of all people. All shapes and sizes. Now, I’ve lost all faith and hope.
See everybody @ The Omaha Westside Warrior Invitational!
Posted from: 71.107.62.115
January 1st, 2008 00:07
Without saying too much about specific invitations, I will say that VBI did not “take its anger out on NSD ppl” by “making sure” none were invited.
First of all, VBI has nothing to do with the round robin. I have worked and continue to work at programs other than VBI. The Archer Round Robin is not affiliated with a summer institute.
Secondly, it is not true that no students from NSD were invited. I suspect that some students preferred to attend the MBA Round Robin just as some students preferred to attend the Archer Round Robin. Invitations to each event were extended at roughly the same time. Some students received invitations to both. Some received invitations to one or the other. Reasons for attending one or the other are varied, and I don’t wish to speculate to much about why or how people made their decisions. I will only suggest that logistics (or team/coach preferences, recreation, where friends are going, etc etc.)may be as great of a concern for some as any speculative camp affiliation.
Third, the variables factored into who does and does not receive an invitation are numerous. I will recall the wisdom of Aaron Timmons with respect to his invitations to the Greenhill Round Robin: it is ultimately our party. There is no reason invitations should be purely a function of merit–I am not even sure if that’s possible: I don’t believe some debaters are objectively better than other debaters. Much obviously depends on the topic, the opponent, and the judge. And while I think our round robin does an exceptional job of including the most successful debaters from the last couple of years, we have no illusions of including the 14 most talented debaters, especially on the same weekend as another excellent round robin. I am also more familiar with the talents of some than the talents of others.
Fourth and finally, I believe this is an inappropriate forum to stimulate camp antagonism. If you have any specific questions about my camp sentiments, feel free to address them to me personally or to direct those concerns to forums about camps. I don’t think it best derail the celebration of an event with a fundamentally tangential concern about camp politics.
Thanks, and hope that helps!
Babb
Archer Debate
Posted from: 71.107.62.115
January 1st, 2008 00:22
And by the way, congratulations to everyone invited. I look forward to seeing everyone and hopefully catching some great rounds.
We will have the Sophomore Round Robin announced shortly.
Babb
Posted from: 76.17.171.188
January 1st, 2008 02:25
Yet again I get spread out of a VBD thread. I apologize for my inconsiderate use of language. Hope the RR is a party! Don’t have too much fun :P
Posted from: 68.115.86.137
January 1st, 2008 09:01
Why does these things get brought up anytime a RR is announced? While the people that Sean and Julian talked about are probably very deserving so are the people that are on that list right now. If someone else had been invited one of those people would not be going and the same questions would be asked as to why they were not invited. The fact is there are more deserving people than there are spots at any round robin so people have to make choice, as Babb said it is Archers party
Posted from: 68.115.86.137
January 1st, 2008 09:04
Wow i forgot to congratulate people which was my original purpose. congrats and good luck to Strake, Ellen, Ravi, Nebel, Ben and MCNEIL.
Posted from: 72.95.150.129
January 1st, 2008 09:07
Congrats and good luck to Ben Schif, David, and Todd.
Posted from: 98.194.153.57
January 1st, 2008 10:25
congrats and good luck to the Bens, the Davids, Todd, Jake, Joan, Isaac, and Ellen.
Posted from: 76.195.202.95
January 1st, 2008 11:24
congrats todd and courtney
Posted from: 69.118.235.253
January 1st, 2008 11:32
“First of all, VBI has nothing to do with the round robin. I have worked and continue to work at programs other than VBI. The Archer Round Robin is not affiliated with a summer institute.”
This is just not true. If you search for the threads from past winners of the same round robin, in ‘06 it reads, “David Weeks wins the Victory Briefs Round Robin”, and in ‘07 it reads, “Nathan Abell wins the Victory Briefs Round Robin.” It’s not like the RR suddenly changed. This year it’s still being held directly after the Victory Briefs Tournament, and it is being run by the same people who are involved with the Victory Briefs Tournament and the people who work at VBI. Changing the name to the “Archer Round Robin” doesn’t do anything .
Here’s a question for Babb: Will there be a scholarship to VBI given to the winners of the RR? I know there was one for last year, and if that is still in place this year then there is no denying that this is in fact Victory Briefs’s Round Robin.
Also, as a final note, I agree with much of what Babb said, and I don’t think these threads are a good place to stimulate camp antagonism. However, I think to treat the issue as “well it’s just coincidental that this is Victory Briefs’s Round Robin and practically ever attendant went to VBI and none went to NSD, and my proof of this is that VBI and the RR (which has previously been called the Victory Briefs RR) are not inter-related!” is simply absurd.
Posted from: 71.160.56.34
January 1st, 2008 12:25
“This is just not true. If you search for the threads from past winners of the same round robin, in ‘06 it reads, “David Weeks wins the Victory Briefs Round Robin”, and in ‘07 it reads, “Nathan Abell wins the Victory Briefs Round Robin.” It’s not like the RR suddenly changed.”
Wrong. Yes it did.
“This year it’s still being held directly after the Victory Briefs Tournament, and it is being run by the same people who are involved with the Victory Briefs Tournament”
Wrong.
“I know there was one for last year, and if that is still in place this year then there is no denying that this is in fact Victory Briefs’s Round Robin.”
Wrong.
Posted from: 69.118.235.253
January 1st, 2008 12:38
I guess I was wrong. Thank you for taking the time to clearly explain why, Bietz. Remind me of who is judging/working in tab at this RR? I guess this is some sort of amazing coincidence after all.
For the record, I recall that Moerner got some sort of scholarship to VBI after winning the Sophomore RR, and I was wondering if that is still in place. My third “wrong” point was a question, not a statement of fact. And if there is a scholarship to VBI offered at the RR, then there’s no disputing that Babb’s 1st argument is false.
Posted from: 71.160.56.34
January 1st, 2008 12:50
Not sure why I have the burden to prove you’re wrong and I’m right, when nothing I’m saying isn’t anything but public information. Anyhow, hopefully this will put it to rest.
Babb is the director of the RR. I had zero say into who had invitations. In fact, I didn’t know the final field until I saw it on VBD. I still don’t know the field of the sophomore rr.
Josh Anderson is directing tab. I guess that means, in a pre-set round robin, is that he is doing the numbers and judge assignments.
I direct the VBT. The tab room of the VBT are Jennie Savage and Jon Cruz. You will see Anderson and Babb judging rounds, at least on day 2. Josh is going to help out with the tournament on the first day because it is at UCLA and he will help direct traffic and stuff. Nonetheless at the “directors” level (tournament and tab room) there is no cross-over. So yah, amazing coincidence.
For the record, you are once again misinformed regarding the scholarships. Moerner got the scholarship for his performance at the VBT, not the RR. Dolan won the first scholarship. Moerner got the second. When he declined it moved to Traber. Neither Becca nor Lindsey were in the sophomore round robin, as they were Juniors last year.
Happy New Year! I’m glad it’s starting off with some awesome camp antagonism.
Love,
Bietz
Posted from: 64.91.217.43
January 1st, 2008 13:22
congrats edina, strake, hockaday, trinity, ben, courtney, isaac. it will be nice to see you all at the vbt
Posted from: 69.118.235.253
January 1st, 2008 13:52
thank you for actually addressing my points this time (it’s not a “burden of proof”, it’s your opportunity to defend yourself and your camp). I really was more concerned (esp. with regard to the scholarship issue) than was I accusing VBI of misconduct.
I do, however, still find it odd that many deserving kids who went to NSD were not invited (who are also going to the tournament). Even if there isn’t exact cross-over b/t the tab rooms of both competitions, the RR is being run (it seems) by VBI staff members (Babb and Anderson). I’m sure Babb was not the sole person who decided who got the invites.
Camp antagonism does suck, so let’s put the issue to rest. However, I’m sure that I am vocalizing the concerns of many NSD staff/students who were surprised to see the final list, and the issue needed to be raised.
Congrats to those who were invited.
Posted from: 71.160.56.34
January 1st, 2008 13:59
“thank you for actually addressing my points this time (it’s not a “burden of proof”, it’s your opportunity to defend yourself and your camp).
Right, sorta like “do you still beat your wife?”
I never felt the need to defend myself or my camp.
Posted from: 67.117.131.193
January 1st, 2008 14:02
“I do, however, still find it odd that many deserving kids who went to NSD were not invited (who are also going to the tournament).”
Hey, buddy, how do you know who was invited and who was not? Perhaps some people rejected the invite because they couldn’t make it out to LA a day earlier.
Btw, congrats to everyone.
Posted from: 12.208.215.81
January 1st, 2008 14:34
my god can the camp wars please end
Posted from: 75.73.219.151
January 1st, 2008 14:51
NEVER!!!
Posted from: 75.73.219.151
January 1st, 2008 14:52
Also, Ben and David are illegit.
Posted from: 71.141.252.113
January 1st, 2008 14:53
No, the camp wars will not end until there is one ULTRA CAMP!
THE ONE CAMP TO RULE THEM ALL!
Quick, grab your expandos! Grab your pens! Grab your ties! MARCH TO THE BATTLEFIELD!
Posted from: 72.144.62.18
January 1st, 2008 15:09
vbsd
Posted from: 70.189.168.180
January 1st, 2008 15:26
Guys, stop. Listen to yourselves. Why the hell does it matter what camp you went to? If you have a problem with a certain camp, then don’t go to it. Other people are different and realize that some like certain camps and some like others. Why does it matter who gets invited to round robins? The people running them decide who comes. That’s the deal.
Posted from: 66.233.57.238
January 1st, 2008 15:44
if you look at the people in this RR, it’s very clear that they were invited based on merit, not connections. i’ve been to both NSD and VBI, and i believe that it really doesn’t matter, i enjoyed both of them immensely. also, its not like anyone invited is wildly illegit. i don’t see a single person from like… a VBI novice lab or anything. everyone invited deserves to be there. thinking otherwise is just kind of moronic.
good luck to ben, mckneel, wholegoon, trin-prep, etc.
Posted from: 66.233.57.238
January 1st, 2008 15:45
also, i’m wildly illegit. under no circumstances should i have been invited to this.
Posted from: 67.188.138.211
January 1st, 2008 16:11
Congrats to Donatti, Mcneil, Ravi, and everyone else attending.
Posted from: 66.167.205.47
January 1st, 2008 17:08
regardless of who might have been “excluded” or whether this rr has been selective based on camp, the individuals who are in the RR are pretty qualified to participate, awesome debaters and people, so let’s take a break from trying to pry out reasons for why the rr is illegit, and instead wish the competitors luck. Congrats and best of luck to Ravi, Jake, Ben and David!
Posted from: 76.17.171.188
January 1st, 2008 17:28
I now realize that I was a confused charlatan composing conspiracy conjectures. Isn’t it a good thing to be challenged on the legitimacy of one’s event? It only means that people are paying attention to it and are willing to voice criticism. People won’t speak out against smaller round robins because they’re not as important to us, so I think that those in charge should take this erroneous quibbling as a compliment. If anything, it allows you to speak out and make yourself seen in the right and make me seen as a misguided quack. Who wouldn’t want the opportunity to do that?
P.S. Congratulations to the Edina Squadron for garnering two invitations to the Archer Round Robin.
P.P.$. Rebar, even though I only judged you in one round, I believe you are qualified for many Round Robinz. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to see your skillz.
Posted from: 66.233.57.238
January 1st, 2008 17:58
aw, thanks juju.
Posted from: 24.12.175.184
January 1st, 2008 18:05
ernie rose said: “my god can the camp wars please end”
plus one to this… i was only pointing out earlier that MBA had quite a lot of ppl from NSD. oh well, that was a dumb idea.
i mean, does it matter what camp a debater goes to? we tend to put a lot of importance on where a debater went to camp and its really kinda dumb. i mean, its more about who coaches them and how hard they’re willing to work. i guess this is propagated by both VBI and NSD posting all the ppl that cleared at every tournament and taking claim to victory at a certain tournament. i think a lot of the camp wars would go down if those were no longer posted. the ppl going to a camp are kinda important but what’s more important is the staff. so why not argue over how good the hires are instead of flaming RR threads?
i mean, NSD and VBI both have some of the greatest minds in the activity spread fairly equally between them, so why not stop hating and start loving? but julien isn’t entirely wrong either. but its just kinda non-unique really… like, everyone knows that debate is incredibly political… that’s just the nature of the event. besides, you get to chose who you invite to your party. i just don’t think the emphasis should be placed on which camp you went…
Posted from: 69.181.125.125
January 1st, 2008 19:09
this has absolutely nothing to do with the politics of invitations (i think the “anti-nsd” claims are bunk) nor with the vbt rr itself, but i never liked the trend of inviting multiple representatives of the same school to a round robin, even one with multiple pods. the ability to encourage argumentative experimentation and foster stylistic diversity is one of the great things about round robins, and inviting multiple people from one school seems like it would undercut that, especially because many schools are quite stylistically homogenous.
congrats again to everyone invited, and make sure to take full advantage of buca di beppo.
Posted from: 98.199.179.122
January 1st, 2008 20:37
houston.
Posted from: 98.199.179.122
January 1st, 2008 20:37
texas.
Posted from: 129.15.131.248
January 1st, 2008 21:58
kneebull has the glock ac, kneebull won’t lose a round.
Posted from: 71.141.252.113
January 1st, 2008 22:49
wow, this is like the one thread where the camp war doesn’t escalate and there is actually a consensus about why we should congratulate people and not bicker.
…and i picked now to unleash the idea of the ultra-camp, and the one camp to rule them all. and the oh-so literal camp wars: angsty teenagers beating each other down with stacks of evidence, expandos, and old flowing pens turned into shanks.
WEAK, NO FUN
Posted from: 71.34.187.228
January 1st, 2008 23:19
shut up
Posted from: 76.17.171.188
January 2nd, 2008 00:19
Wars kill people.
Posted from: 68.117.51.81
January 2nd, 2008 00:49
gosh uncle juju, you are so smart.
and good luck to all the competitors, I’m sure they’ll have loads of fun dealing with edina’s violence AC that dominated the blake edie tourne.
Posted from: 75.73.219.151
January 2nd, 2008 01:05
DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUN!!!
Posted from: 70.241.122.68
January 2nd, 2008 01:24
Damn that field looks intense … Good luck to everyone, except for todd of course
Posted from: 129.15.131.248
January 2nd, 2008 04:15
edina doesn’t have the glock AC prepped out though….sorry you lose
http://youlose.ytmnd.com/
Posted from: 67.163.20.6
January 2nd, 2008 07:16
damn, i just wanted to post a good luck message to my labmate (good luck ellen, remember all of the lab mottos), but it seems everyone has already had an argument about the legitimacy of VBI, the VBT, the Archer Round Robin, and the meaning of life.
i agree with kamil (grudgingly) and julian that camp isn’t important, but i find the whole VBI-NSD war delightful to engage in from time to time because people become so irrational when defending their camp. Honestly though, it’s winter break; we should be relaxing, not making multi-paragraph posts on vbd to discuss debate camp and its role on people getting into round robins.
Posted from: 75.18.215.199
January 2nd, 2008 10:01
this thread is a huge struggle.
but congrats to everyone who was invited; the field is impressive.
Posted from: 71.107.62.115
January 2nd, 2008 15:08
Quick note re: the point Alex Smith makes.
I ordinarily agree 100%. I love the idea of including a variety of different schools. I also like the idea of geographic diversity. Initially (early Fall), I’d actually hoped to only invite one per school. But a few programs made that very difficult to justify. The idea of schools having an “A debater” and a “B debater” is ordinarily a sensible model, but I wouldn’t want to try and figure our which one is which with the schools we invited. This year certainly isn’t the only one with schools like that, but it does seem exceptionally pronounced this year.
Good point from Alex, though.
b
Posted from: 216.62.158.56
January 2nd, 2008 15:09
Congratulations everyone.
Thats all for now but im sure I can find something to complain about later.
Posted from: 151.202.49.198
January 2nd, 2008 17:36
I’m really not sure where to post this, so im posting it here knowing a lot of people are reading this thread. what ever happened to the national debate rankings? some one had promised to revive it yet it remains MIA. this is a great tool especially as college applications are going out. any thoughts?
Posted from: 69.10.36.4
January 2nd, 2008 19:23
Ya i agree. Id really like to see them.
Posted from: 12.208.215.81
January 3rd, 2008 14:16
Lets settle this once and for all.
NSD vs. VBI staff basketball
5 on 5
at TOC
The only way to end this. Whats your lineup?
Posted from: 69.118.234.129
January 3rd, 2008 15:44
you’re on.
neil conrad/me = ray allen/KG
[that's pretty generous for me, but i actually have drawn comparisons to matt bonner, brian scalabrine and kurt thomas]
Posted from: 216.62.158.56
January 3rd, 2008 16:03
it just so happens that my game has been compared to paul pierce.
Posted from: 165.254.143.3
January 3rd, 2008 18:08
I’ll be a cheerleader.
Posted from: 69.249.72.27
January 3rd, 2008 23:01
jon cruz, you could quite possibly be the funniest person I know, jake levi starting center for VBI? idk if he plays but he’s tall enough
Posted from: 71.107.62.115
January 3rd, 2008 23:41
it just so happens my game has been compared to that of michael doleac.
b
Posted from: 76.17.195.90
January 4th, 2008 00:55
Ernie, I would hate for you to have to learn the hard way (like I did) that challenging Neil Conrad to a basketball game is a bad idea.
Posted from: 12.208.215.81
January 4th, 2008 01:16
I’ve heard Neil’s a baller…but 5 on 5 I think we look pretty good
I’m serious, I think this would be really fun. Bietz, you can be the GM…I hope you do a better job than mchale :)
Posted from: 12.145.154.226
January 4th, 2008 02:49
my game has been compared to that of Helen Keller.
Posted from: 69.118.234.129
January 4th, 2008 13:28
ernie, you might like nsd’s chances on paper, but as we learned from charlie murphy’s experience with prince, “you can’t judge a book by its cover… that cat could ball”
Posted from: 209.162.38.254
January 4th, 2008 15:34
I can be Tim Donaghy. I will referee the game while simultaneously betting on the outcome.
Posted from: 64.183.105.83
January 4th, 2008 23:42
ya nebel wins finals negating, 7-0, against ben holguin
Posted from: 68.161.185.30
January 5th, 2008 20:06
“I now realize that I was a confused charlatan composing conspiracy conjectures.” qfa.
i aint yao ming but i can put in a layup