Stephanie Caravias Wins Princeton Crown
Stephanie Caravias and Marc Wallach
PRINCETON, N.J. — Congratulations to the finalists at this year’s Princeton Classic: the Collegiate School’s Marc Wallach and Ridge High School’s Stephanie Caravias! The two debated each other late on Sunday in front of a panel of seven critics. On a 5-2 decision, Stephanie defeated Marc to keep the Princeton title in New Jersey. Congratulations are also in order for Barrack Hebrew Academy’s Josh Dembowitz and New Hope-Solebury High School’s Graham Albachten for advancing to finals in the large junior varsity division. On a 5-0 decision, Josh defeated Graham to claim the J.V. championship. (Coaching credits and extended results follow.)
Marc is coached by Sean Mumper and Michael Mangus. Stephanie is coached by David Yastremski and Charlie Furman. Josh is coached by Hallie Anderson; Graham is coached by Shari Burdick.
—
OCTAS
Great Neck South JK def. Pinecrest AK (Ashlyn Karan)
(Uday Doshi, Loralynne Krobetzky, Charlie Furman)
Millburn TM def. Niskayuna AW (Alex Williams)
2-1 (Nagarajan, Roth, *Ross)
Niskayuna SoS def. Perkiomen Valley KG (Karlyn Gorski)
2-1 (Tom Rollins, Rushabh Doshi, Zayn Siddique)
Collegiate MW def. Plano East SS (Shilpa Sethuraman)
2-1 (Karan, Mrs. Luccarelli, Ben Sherman)
Plano East RS def. Regis CR (Colin Ross)
3-0 (Michael Mangus, Angela Cai, Mira Chernick)
Ridge SC def. Whipanny Park CJ (Christopher Jeng)
3-0 (Jon Kwan, May, Mike Shih)
Ridge SR def. Scarsdale JS (Josh Seiden)
2-1 (Peter Bond, *Mike Welch, Kwaniewsk)
St. Joseph’s Prep RZ def. Niskayuna ST (Steven Tang)
(Hantel, Ran, Holler)
QUARTERS
Collegiate MW def. Milburn TM (Tess McNulty)
(Peter Bond, Mira Chernick, Mike Shih)
Ridge SC def. Great Neck South JK (Jesse Klinger)
2-1 (Michael Mangus, *Andrea Gellen, Steve Liu)
Ridge SR def. Plano East RS (Rahul Sangal)
(Zayn Siddique, Jon Kwan, Karan)
Niskayuna SoS def. St. Joseph’s Prep RZ (Ryan Zehner)
(Charlie Furman, Sean Mumper, Vogal)
SEMIS
Collegiate MW def. Niskayuna SS (Sohail Syed)
Ridge SC over Ridge SR (Shireen Rudina)
—
BREAKS
A.L. Johnson JM (John Monagle)
Collegiate MW (Marc Wallach)
Great Neck So JK (Jesse Klinger)
Half Hollow Hills East JS (Joanna Schlingbaum)
Hunter College TM (Ted Mateoc)
Millburn TM (Tess McNulty)
Mitchell NC (Nicole Carter)
Newtown AkAg (Akshay Agashe)
Niskayuna AM (Arcith Murali)
Niskayuna AW (Alex Williams)
Niskayuna ST (Steven Tang)
Niskayuna Sos (Sohali Syed)
Penn Leadership AK (Alex Koren)
Perkiomen Valley KG (Karlyn Gorski)
Pinecrest AK (Ashlyn Karan)
Plano East RS (Rahul Sangal)
Plano East SS (Shilpa Sethuraman)
Potomac AG (Adam Gerchick)
Potomac MD (Mimi Dwyer)
Randolph AZ (Alex Zhao)
Regis CR (Colin Ross)
Regis LM (Louis Masi)
Ridge AT (Alan Tong)
Ridge HA (Hiba Abouslieman)
Ridge SC (Stephanie Caravias)
Ridge SR (Shireen Rudina)
Scarsdale JS (Josh Seiden)
St. Joseph’s Prep MA (Matthew Angiolillo)
St. Joseph’s Prep RZ (Ryan Zehner)
Syosset SK (Saagar Kaul)
Thomas Jefferson CO (Christine O’Donnell)
Whipanny Park CJ (Christopher Jeng)
Popularity: 2% [?]
test
Posted from: 205.134.251.132
November 30th, 2007 08:06
[...] Princeton: We will be providing reports from Princeton as they are received. [...]
Posted from: 69.134.16.205
November 30th, 2007 15:34
Just in case, George Mason University has a tournament this weekend too, though it has no LD. Its a good speech tournament but I dont know anyone that is there at the moment, but if you find someone you could post results from their too.
Posted from: 66.180.184.111
November 30th, 2007 16:03
Round 1 just finished.
Posted from: 66.180.185.174
November 30th, 2007 16:09
yay for free wifi at princeton
Posted from: 69.134.16.205
November 30th, 2007 17:59
Niskayuna SS (Salman Syed) 1-0
Niskayuna SS (Sohail Syed) 1-0 nc
Niskayuna SD (Sam Dharia) 1-0 nc
Niskayuna AW (Alex Williams) 1-0 nc
Niskayuna ST (Stephen Tang) 1-0
Pinecrest IF (Ian Fleming sp.?) 0-1
Hunter College CE (Cara Eckholm) 1-0
Plano East ST (Saumya Tayi) 0-1
Posted from: 69.134.16.205
November 30th, 2007 18:03
Newtown AA (Akshay Agashe) 1-0
Posted from: 12.107.91.2
November 30th, 2007 22:05
i have a quick quiz:
a debate round takes 38 minutes when debaters are given (against nfl rules and common sense) 3 minutes of prep. assuming 15 minutes between rounds and a couple extra minutes for general time-wasting, a double-flighted round should take no more than 2 hours. since presets can both be paired prior to the tournament, we can figure that 2 presents should take no more than 4.5 hours.
at princeton, round 1 was scheduled for 4. round 2 ended at approximately 10:30. where did those 2 hours go?
(a) walking between buildings spread wildly across the campus
(b) a 1 hour delay before the first preset and a half hour delay before the second preset
(c) having a huge scheduled break for individual events
(d) all of the above.
guess which answer is correct.
i find it particularly frustrating when judges are berated for being “late” to get a ballot after the opening assembly starts an hour behind schedule and pairings are posted on the walls next to stairwells and doors so no one can manage to get out of the auditorium. i guess photocopiers are at a premium at princeton.
some tournaments are not built for double-entry between debate and IEs. a tournament where you have to walk clear across campus to get to your room (which may be locked anyway when you finally get there) is probably a great example of why double-entry sucks.
thrilled to wake up in 6 hours and do it all again,
jmm
ps: you’re talkin’ up my any-time minutes folks. my phone’s “reject” button is just warming up.
Posted from: 74.67.55.150
December 1st, 2007 00:42
I liked princetons time between rounds when I was competing. I used it to shoot pool. Jes sayin.
Posted from: 66.180.186.240
December 1st, 2007 09:06
Sohail is 3-0
Zak is 2-1
Karlyn is 3-0
Posted from: 66.180.185.110
December 1st, 2007 10:34
AlJ comfirmed
AC 3-0
Not confirmed
Pk 2-1 95% sure
Posted from: 66.180.187.56
December 1st, 2007 11:31
I am 3-1 and Alex is 4-0
I dropped to Zehner in front of Jkwan
Posted from: 66.180.185.110
December 1st, 2007 12:17
I am 3-1
Patty keating is 2-2
JM aka mo mo is 2-2
Posted from: 69.249.94.148
December 1st, 2007 12:35
can schems be found anywhere online?
Posted from: 208.120.18.198
December 1st, 2007 13:32
omg omg karlyyyynnn win somethings.
make up for vgr.
Posted from: 66.180.185.110
December 1st, 2007 13:41
jk
no
Posted from: 68.164.246.194
December 1st, 2007 14:39
im feeling #2 coming Sohail! good luck on the rest of your rounds this weekend!
Posted from: 74.67.55.150
December 1st, 2007 15:51
QFT. Although, with 2 bid rounds and a bid in 3 tournaments, he shouldn’t have trouble with an at large anyway.
Posted from: 74.70.47.187
December 1st, 2007 16:12
Come on Alex! I sense your second bid on the way! I want you to win the tournament dude! Good luck to Sohail as well!
Posted from: 74.70.47.187
December 1st, 2007 16:17
Are outrounds tommorow?
Posted from: 64.12.116.76
December 1st, 2007 16:20
So who made it through for tomorrow?? Can you please list
Posted from: 66.180.184.170
December 1st, 2007 16:25
I’m tall. Kevin Justick should win this tournament- he is a pimp. Public forum can sucka ma bawlzah.
8======D — — —
Posted from: 66.180.184.52
December 1st, 2007 16:31
kevin ur an idiot. U spelled ur name wrong so ppl wouldnt know its u but i see rite through u
Posted from: 74.67.55.150
December 1st, 2007 16:38
They haven’t done the sixth round yet, so I doubt they knew who is through to the outrounds or not, what with the bubblerounds and all.
Posted from: 69.134.16.205
December 1st, 2007 16:40
Do we know any records?
Posted from: 128.112.193.171
December 1st, 2007 17:03
First, to clarify, Princeton isn’t allowing double entry between debate and IE, so I have no clue what ‘jmm’ is talking about. Secondly, I think that Princeton’s running great this year, much better than in previous years. Their judging pool has really improved, and most rounds are getting off on time.
Posted from: 69.134.16.205
December 1st, 2007 17:08
Im assuming Mangus is talking about this
• Students may double enter in debate and either speech or public forum, but not both. Student congress entrants, Public Forum entrants, and Lincoln Douglas Debate entrants may not double enter. However, the tournament makes no further special arrangements for double-entered competitors, and students are responsible for making their rounds on time. Competitors who miss rounds will be given a “loss” or a “5” in debate and speech respectively.
That means that LD, which would have to hold up for other debate events would have to wait for these other events to finish, especially if judges cross over events.
Posted from: 66.180.184.12
December 1st, 2007 17:28
dear jason,
my full name is as the top of the post.
my complaint is not the judging. its that the tournament has an awful schedule and poor logistics.
maybe there was not double-entry; i assumed there was because the rounds were staggered. either way, my complaint is that there are huge breaks between rounds and yet somehow things started late last night when rounds were _preset_. it is not very late today, but the horrendous 2 hours of nothingness continue nevertheless.
Posted from: 129.15.131.248
December 1st, 2007 20:55
THE CROWD GOES WILD!
Man-gus
Man-gus
Man-gus
Man-gus
Man-gus
Posted from: 65.86.255.2
December 1st, 2007 21:03
Niskayuna Broke:
AM (Archith Murali)
SoS (Sohail Syed)
AW (Alex Williams)
ST (Steven Tang)
Posted from: 69.248.27.134
December 1st, 2007 21:11
i broke
Posted from: 69.249.94.148
December 1st, 2007 21:26
Full list of breaks:
A.L. Johnson JM (John Monagle)
Collegiate MW (Marc Wallach)
Great Neck So JK (Jesse Klinger)
HHHE JS (Joanna Schlingbaum)
Hunter College TM (Ted Mateoc)
Ind. Mitchell NC (Nicole Carter)
Millburn TM (Tess McNulty)
Newtown AkAg (Akshay Agashe)
Niskayuna AM (Arcith Murali)
Niskayuna AW (Alex Williams)
Niskayuna ST (Steven Tang)
Niskayuna Sos (Sohali Syed)
Penn Leadership AK (Alex Koren)
Perkiomen Valley KG (Karlyn Gorski)
Pinecrest AK (Ashlyn Karan)
Plano East RS (Rahul Sangal)
Plano East SS (Shilpa Sethuraman)
Potomac AG (Adam Gerchick)
Potomac MD (Mimi Dwyer)
Randolph AZ (Alex Zhao)
Regis CR (Colin Ross)
Regis LM (Louis Masi)
Ridge AT (Alan Tong)
Ridge HA (Hiba Abouslieman)
Ridge SC (Stephanie Caravias)
Ridge SR (Shireen Rudina)
Scarsdale JS (Josh Seiden)
St. Joseph’s Prep MA (Matthew Angiolillo)
St. Joseph’s Prep RZ (Ryan Zehner)
Syosset SK (Saagar Kaul)
Thomas Jefferson CO (Christine O’Donnell)
Whipanny Park CJ (Christopher Jeng)
Posted from: 24.176.254.44
December 1st, 2007 21:28
anyone know how new trier is doing?
Posted from: 69.118.235.253
December 1st, 2007 21:51
congrats to Josh Seiden. visit his debate website:
http://www.block-stop.org
Posted from: 74.67.55.150
December 1st, 2007 22:45
Rob, Ashley thought she was in the bubble round, but from the looks of it, she either wasn’t, or she lost.
Posted from: 65.86.255.2
December 1st, 2007 23:24
What the link to the breaks?
Posted from: 75.73.219.151
December 2nd, 2007 00:41
AZHAAAAAO
Posted from: 74.70.47.187
December 2nd, 2007 07:04
Congrats to Arcith on his break! Keep going Alex and Sohail!
Posted from: 69.134.16.205
December 2nd, 2007 08:16
Alllllex Zhao get the bid and make it a lab 3-peat!!!! Congrats on the break too!!
Congrats to Nisky, especiall Sohail who better finish his qual
COngrats to Ashlyn Karan, who should get the third NC bid
Posted from: 12.107.91.2
December 2nd, 2007 08:50
(3-0) Millburn TM (neg) def. Syosset SK—Saagar Kaul (aff)
(3-0) Scarsdale JS (aff) def. Newtown AA—Akshay Agashe(neg)
(2-1) Niskayuna ST (aff) def. Potomac MD—Mimi Dwyer (neg)
Further updates live from in the rounds at http://www.block-stop.org
Posted from: 69.249.94.148
December 2nd, 2007 08:56
according to seiden octas is:
Great Neck So JK v. Pinecrest AK
(Doshi Uday, Krobetzky, Furman)
Millburn TM v. Niskayuna AW
(Nagarajan, Roth, Ross)
Niskayuna SoS v. Perkiomen Valley KG
(Rollins, Doshi Rush, Siddique)
Plano East SS v. Collegiate MW
(Karan, Luccarelli, Sherman)
Regis CR v. Plano East RS
(Mangus, Cai, Chernick )
Ridge SC v. Whipanny Park CJ
(Kwan, May, Shih)
Ridge SR (neg) v. Scarsdale JS (aff)
(Bond, Welch, Kwaniewsk)
St. Joseph’s Prep RZ v. Niskayuna ST
(Hantel, Ran, Holler)
Posted from: 66.180.184.111
December 2nd, 2007 09:03
I dropped on a 3-0 to Alex Williams.
Posted from: 140.180.17.156
December 2nd, 2007 09:06
These octos panels are sweet
Posted from: 69.249.94.148
December 2nd, 2007 09:39
Millburn TM (aff) def. Niskayuna AW—Alex Williams (aff)
2-1 (Nagarajan, Roth, Ross*)
Posted from: 69.249.94.148
December 2nd, 2007 09:42
not sure about the sides, that’s how seiden posted them, my bad.
and:
Klinger defeated Ashlyn
Sohail defeated Karlyn
Posted from: 66.108.94.165
December 2nd, 2007 09:48
ONE MORE ROUND, JESSE KLINGER, TO MAKE GREAT NECK SOUTH HISTORY.
Posted from: 74.70.47.187
December 2nd, 2007 10:20
Tang and Sohail, Nisky is depending on you! BID!!!!
Posted from: 66.180.185.205
December 2nd, 2007 11:47
Bids Went to:
Sohail Syed
Stephanie Caravias
Shareen Rudina
Marc Wallach
Posted from: 128.163.243.32
December 2nd, 2007 11:50
congrats to sohail for reppin team worthless
congrats to josh seiden for being a baller
Posted from: 24.115.128.87
December 2nd, 2007 11:56
Congrats to steph and sohail on the bid…..Ryan Koren and Karlyn on the breaks and of course Matt!
Posted from: 69.249.94.148
December 2nd, 2007 11:56
steph coached over shireen
Posted from: 71.185.80.3
December 2nd, 2007 12:07
Octs:
Great Neck So JK def. Pinecrest AK—Ashlyn Karan
(Doshi Uday, Krobetzky, Furman)
Millburn TM (aff) def. Niskayuna AW—Alex Williams (aff)
2-1 (Nagarajan, Roth, Ross*)
Niskayuna SoS def Perkiomen Valley KG—Karlyn Gorski
(Rollins, Doshi Rush, Siddique)
Collegiate MW def. Plano East SS—Shilpa Sethuraman
2-1 (Karan, Luccarelli, Sherman)
Plano East RS def. Regis CR—Colin Ross
3-0 (Mangus, Cai, Chernick )
Ridge SC def. Whipanny Park CJ— Christopher Jeng
3-0 (Kwan, May, Shih)
Ridge SR (neg) def. Scarsdale JS—Josh Seiden(aff)
2-1 (Bond, Welch*, Kwaniewsk)
Congrats to Josh, the co-founder of Block Stop.
Great Job!
St. Joseph’s Prep RZ def. Niskayuna ST—Steven Tang
(Hantel, Ran, Holler)
Quarters:
Collegiate MW def Milburn TM—Tess McNulty
(Bond, Chernick, Shih)
Ridge SC (neg) def. Great Neck So JK—Jesse Klinger (aff)
2-1 (Mangus, Gellen*, Liu)
Ridge SR def. Plano East RS
(Siddique, Kwan, Karan)
Niskayuna SoS (aff) def. St. Joseph’s Prep RZ—Ryan Zehner (neg)
(Furman, Mumper, Vogal)
Semis:
Collegiate MW v. Niskayuna SoS
Ridge SC over Ridge SR
Posted from: 66.180.184.94
December 2nd, 2007 12:11
Finals
Collegiate MW vs Ridge SC
Posted from: 69.122.34.78
December 2nd, 2007 12:14
anyone have/know the jv ld results?
Posted from: 69.140.159.61
December 2nd, 2007 12:14
Congrats to Steph and Marc on the bids
Posted from: 74.70.47.187
December 2nd, 2007 12:18
Is the bid at semis or finals?
Posted from: 24.176.254.44
December 2nd, 2007 12:26
semis
Posted from: 69.134.16.205
December 2nd, 2007 12:29
SOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAIiiiiiLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
COMPLETED THE QUAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! !! WOO!!
Dude man you deserve this so bad. You dont have to go to Crestian anymore, you got the qual. You were worrying at yale all about not even getting a bid, and you already qualed. Hellz yeah!!!
Posted from: 24.151.21.99
December 2nd, 2007 12:35
Holy shit!I guess you werent 2-4 afterall Marc.
Congrats to Steph for an extremely extremely overdue bid.
and Sohail on the qual
and Tess, Zehner, and everyone else I am forgetting.
Posted from: 68.209.198.15
December 2nd, 2007 12:46
congrats sohail.
Posted from: 24.115.128.87
December 2nd, 2007 12:49
GO STEPH!
Posted from: 69.122.34.78
December 2nd, 2007 12:56
does anyone know/have the jv ld results?
Posted from: 70.116.20.165
December 2nd, 2007 12:59
marc wallach ftw
congrats on bid 3
Posted from: 70.116.20.165
December 2nd, 2007 13:01
and who is ridge sr?
Posted from: 66.108.94.165
December 2nd, 2007 13:02
Shireen Rudina.
Congratulations, Marc and Steph!
Posted from: 69.249.94.148
December 2nd, 2007 13:04
shireen rudina.
congrats to marc, karlyn, tess, sohail (congrats on the qual!!), steph, tong, chris, and ALEX ZHAO on the breaks (and bids if applicable)
Posted from: 68.48.175.11
December 2nd, 2007 13:05
Congrats to all who got bids/did well/didn’t drool on themselves, but special props to Steph — I told you it would happen!
Posted from: 63.197.0.78
December 2nd, 2007 13:06
congrats marc!!!
Posted from: 74.68.51.212
December 2nd, 2007 13:11
Congrats Marc, Shireen!, Akshay, Karlyn, Sohail, Alan, Steph, Hiba, and Seiden.
Posted from: 69.134.16.205
December 2nd, 2007 13:12
and wow, for the second straight tourney, I forgot Karlyn. haha Congrats to her too. and Akshay, who I think I already congratulated
Posted from: 24.115.128.87
December 2nd, 2007 13:23
who wins?
Posted from: 74.67.55.150
December 2nd, 2007 13:35
Congrats to Sohail for being an absolute baller. Congrats to Steven, Alex, Archif, and Saagar for breaking.
Great job guys.
Posted from: 69.249.94.118
December 2nd, 2007 13:40
congrats to tess, arbi, marc, shireen, and hiba!
Posted from: 69.124.49.106
December 2nd, 2007 13:42
congrats ridge kids esp. shireen and steph on the bids!
Posted from: 67.8.227.203
December 2nd, 2007 13:42
Congrats to marc and steph
Posted from: 69.249.95.27
December 2nd, 2007 13:52
Katzman, wtf are you talking about? Congrats Tess, Arbi, Marc, all Nisky breakers.
Posted from: 72.68.76.78
December 2nd, 2007 13:53
congrats to marc and steph on finals!
two awesome debaters + stephs bid is obviously waay overdue.
congrats as well to sohail and shireen on bids
also, to everyone who broke/did well, jesse, akshay, karlyn, alan, mimi, alex ,hiba etc.
Posted from: 74.68.51.212
December 2nd, 2007 14:35
i heard steph won
Posted from: 69.118.240.181
December 2nd, 2007 14:35
congrats Seiden
Posted from: 69.253.230.13
December 2nd, 2007 14:41
zehner and sohail’s quarters round was a 3-0
Posted from: 69.253.230.13
December 2nd, 2007 14:51
marc, akshay, saagar, alex z, matt a, ryan, josh, and tess, congrats.
sohail, you’re insane. way to go.
alex koren… strug it up.
ALAN, HIBA, SHIREEN, AND STEPH, i love you guys, way to go all of you! =]
PS steph, told ya so.
Posted from: 67.87.135.47
December 2nd, 2007 15:08
“congrats to josh seiden for being a baller”
Hella. Josh, you’re a total beast. Consider this your breakout into the many good things to come for you. By the way, your croissants are still incredibly poor quality.
Posted from: 146.115.112.26
December 2nd, 2007 15:16
mad congrats to the following:
steph: win or not in finals, SUPER congrats on the bid. You literally work harder than anyone else i know, and this is so outrageously well deserved. I’ll see you in kentucky!
Marc: 3 Bids? Collegiate? mine eyes must deceive me…but seriously, rock on, and mad congrats on finals/the win (whatever it may be)
Sohail: the struggle is officially over. huge ups.
Karlyn: You beat qualled debaters in outrounds. I smell a bid at harvard. You’re totally getting a big hug at lex
Shireen: woot bid woot!
obvious congrats to everyone else who did well
Posted from: 69.118.230.217
December 2nd, 2007 15:26
Congrats to:
Alex, Steven, Tess, Jesse, Shireen, Marc and Steph
HUGE CONGRATS TO JOSH SEIDEN!!! Great Job!
Posted from: 98.199.179.122
December 2nd, 2007 15:29
congrats marc and steph!
Posted from: 69.249.79.130
December 2nd, 2007 15:34
congrats to…
1: steph for the bid/finals/win? and repping NJ strong
2: shireen rudina for being awesome and getting a bid and beating good people
3. Tess for being all around awesome and continuing going undefeated in prelims in the ENTIRE season, and first seed, and a quarters appearance.
4. Arbi for JV existence.
5. Sohail for the bid and finishing his qual, rock the toc.
6. Kevin justich for the continual enjoyment value you bring to a tournament, despite your clear harassment at times.
7. princeton for running a tournament where I only had ONE judge who didnt flow :), and dan rauch for being the coolest parli kid in the world, rock on.
Posted from: 69.140.239.225
December 2nd, 2007 15:35
Congrats to Akshay, Saagar, AWilliams, Sohail, Alan, Shireen, Steph, Marc, and Karlyn.
Posted from: 67.80.223.145
December 2nd, 2007 15:38
Steph picked up on a 5-2
Posted from: 71.167.160.72
December 2nd, 2007 15:52
congrats to joanna, karlyn, alan, hiba, and josh!
also, major props to steph (FINALLY) and shireen for the bids! amazing job!
Posted from: 71.167.160.72
December 2nd, 2007 15:54
I almost forgot…congrats to matt as well! nice work!
Posted from: 216.165.34.146
December 2nd, 2007 15:55
I subbed for holler in octas and was on a one man coin panel for marc and sohail
Posted from: 69.118.235.253
December 2nd, 2007 16:16
congrats josh for getting to octs and congrats sohail for completing your qual
Posted from: 68.161.148.49
December 2nd, 2007 16:39
Josh you da bomb!!!
Here’s to many more breaks to come.
Posted from: 24.151.51.16
December 2nd, 2007 17:04
congrats to akshay, karlyn, ryan, archith, AT, hibss, steph, shireen, matt, ryan and saags. nice!
Posted from: 69.249.95.27
December 2nd, 2007 17:52
This was a really good tournament. I was very happy with how well it was run. Dan Rauch did a great job running it… i just wish there would have been some tab errors in my favor but that didn’t come. But anyway– good job Princeton on putting together an enjoyable tournament. It should be a quarters bid next year (check out the quarters pool).
Posted from: 205.134.251.132
December 2nd, 2007 17:53
[...] Princeton: Ridge’s Stephanie Caravias defeats Collegiate’s Marc Wallach on a 5-2. [...]
Posted from: 162.83.249.19
December 2nd, 2007 18:17
Congrats Steph on finally breaking the bid round curse and winning. Also congrats to Marc, Jesse, Sohail, Ryan, Alex, Tess and Karlyn!
Posted from: 69.139.12.22
December 2nd, 2007 18:18
congrads to my idol steph knew u could do it
Posted from: 68.199.3.102
December 2nd, 2007 18:19
Congrats! Karlyn, Hiba, Jackie, Matt, Johanna, Archith and especially Steph and Shireen for bids! You really deserve them!
Posted from: 68.46.112.219
December 2nd, 2007 18:31
JV:
Barrack Hebrew JD (Josh Dembowitz) defeated New Hope-Solebury GA (Graham Albachten) in a 5-0 decision. For those JV debaters, Josh was one of the non-flowers due to religious reasons in rounds 1-5. He entered the two seed (second speaker as well), and went 11-0 during the tournament
Posted from: 69.180.210.210
December 2nd, 2007 18:38
good job steph
Posted from: 24.45.15.243
December 2nd, 2007 18:50
Big congrats to Steph for overcoming the struggle and bidding, so overdue. And there was no better way to do it then by going on to win the tournament.
Big ups to Marc for getting bid number three and finalling, you are undenyably a beast. Also congrats to Jesse for making it to the bid round and being just a ballot away from semis, and Karlyn for making it to octas.
Posted from: 68.196.117.93
December 2nd, 2007 18:52
Congratulations to Alex, Tess, Marc, and Josh Seiden (who is way too ridiculously good to hit in the down 3 round at Yale)!
Posted from: 74.70.112.133
December 2nd, 2007 19:16
Wallach is a beast. His NC and NR wrecked me.
Posted from: 69.224.36.153
December 2nd, 2007 19:18
marc wallach is such a monster
Posted from: 74.70.47.187
December 2nd, 2007 19:26
Congrats to the Nisky team and Sohail for finally qualing!!
Posted from: 74.70.99.58
December 2nd, 2007 19:34
yeah marc is pretty beast, but im pretty sure that sohail couldve got to finals, the coin flip is totally useless, i didnt see finals but Im sure it was cool
Posted from: 69.118.240.181
December 2nd, 2007 20:03
does anyone know where we can get the results packet?
Posted from: 70.111.92.208
December 2nd, 2007 20:24
Congrats to Steph, Marc, Tess, Alan, Saagar and Karlyn for bids/breaks/winning.
Posted from: 140.180.5.106
December 2nd, 2007 20:38
Thanks to all the competitors and judges for making this a really great tournament. Dan Rauch and Jason Anton did an excellent job running it and our tab staff was beyond amazing. Despite a small hitch before round 1, the rest of the tournament actually ran slightly ahead of schedule which is always great.
Also, congrats to Steph and Marc. Both awesome debaters, good friends, and way too illegit to quit.
That said, some results stuff:
Quarters:
Marc and Tess was a 2-1 with Bond on bottom
Shireen and Rahul was a 2-1 with JKwan on bottom and Karan was replaced with Ryan Davis
Sohail and Ryan was a 3-0
Finals:
Was a 5-2 with Rushabh Doshi, Mike Shih, Jon Kwan, Vishal Chanani and myself on top and Mira Chernick and Dan May squirreling.
Posted from: 74.70.112.133
December 2nd, 2007 20:46
just in case people are confused, Hamza is jk’ing :)
Posted from: 140.180.41.117
December 2nd, 2007 21:36
First, round 1 was posted ~25 minutes behind schedule because schools who registered did not show up and hence we had to change presets. After that delay, everything else was on time.
Second, the reason for having breaks between rounds is because we also run a sizable pool in speech, congress, and public forum, and having ~800 competitors across the board means that they cannot all be competing at the same time. unless you would rather Princeton not have those events (which I think would displease many, many schools), it is simply not possible to have all of those rounds going on at the same time. Ballots were often ready 15-30 minutes beforehand; we set up a system to track down missing judges so that everything would go smoothly.
Third: we can’t really help it if rooms are farther than some would like. we definitely accommodated those who would be unduly burdened by the walk, and on Sunday we were able to keep all the rounds within the same building (or within a 30-yard radius) so that no one would have to walk on ice outside.
as any responsible tournament would, we definitely want to come up with solutions to concerns about any aspect of our tournament; we’ve been doing so in the past few years, and are committed to continuing. if you have specific suggestions, please do not hesitate to email us.
in other news:
vld quarters: Niskayuna v. St.Joe’s: Vogel was replaced by me, and that was a 3-0
full results will be posted online shortly, including full tab.
Thanks everyone for a great weekend.
Posted from: 38.118.23.20
December 3rd, 2007 00:39
YO FINALS PANEL=BEAST
Posted from: 69.253.230.13
December 3rd, 2007 04:41
i heard alot of people complaining at the tournament (as well as alot of people who didn’t go) that it is “soooo illegit.” now, i understand that kids are going to say that regardless of where they are. but i seem to hear it much more often for princeton than for others.
out of the 12 judges i had throughout prelims and outrounds, only one of them made a decision which i disagree with. plus, if you check out the panels from octas through finals, most of them have *at least* two “legit” judges.
Posted from: 68.193.253.36
December 3rd, 2007 04:57
Perhaps Mr. Mangus should be invited to help in the tabroom where he would develop a greater understanding of the logistics of running a tournament.
He would learn, for instance, that out of a finite set of rooms that a tournament has available, most of them must be booked constantly–that rooms are used first for debate, then for speech, then for debate again. If anything falls behind, everything falls behind. It would indeed be great if rooms were available for debate and speech to run independently. That not being the case, this system will have to continue.
BC
Princeton Congress Tab
Posted from: 146.115.112.26
December 3rd, 2007 06:19
is the all events college invitational (harvard, princeton, yale), with long waits due to flighting across events, unique to the northeast? I’m looking for something to explain Mangus’ suprised reaction, and the total lack of the phenomenon in his neck of the woulds would do that…
Posted from: 66.193.5.99
December 3rd, 2007 06:48
congrats to Ashlyn, Tess, Nicole and Mimi
Posted from: 64.251.53.81
December 3rd, 2007 07:59
Karlyn,
The reason why good debaters choose to not attend Princeton, is not because it lacks tab judges in the pool altogether.For example, one of my teamates had judging comparitive to an extremely tab tournament ( jkwan, steve liu, charlie furman, mangus, mike shih, and someone else) while on the other hand Marc Wallach, one of the debaters in finals and a good friend, drew 6 parent/ no flow judges in 6 rounds.I dont want to speak for Marc, but I recall he was about to board a train to leave when he was alerted that he broke.
That being said, the issue with Princeton is its ridiculous unpredictibility. Very few debaters were sure of their records going into Rd. 6, and additionally very good debaters were sure they were down and out. Princeton puts a massive ephasis on adaptation, likely the reason why so many good debaters from the area choose to not attend.While adaptation may be fine, Princeton seemed to lack a judge ranking system all together as I had parent judges in all up rounds. The point is, simply because you had good judging and predictable decisions, does not grant the tournament legitimacy.Mangus’ comments are similar to those surrounding the tournament for years, and while Princeton was certainly better and a lot of fun this year, it certainly was not without flaws.
Posted from: 63.138.40.98
December 3rd, 2007 08:20
>Princeton puts a massive ephasis on adaptation, likely the reason why so many good debaters from the area choose to not attend
That shouldn’t be the tournament’s problem, but the debaters’ problem. If they don’t like to adapt, perhaps they oughtn’t to be involved in public speaking.
That said, I will agree that judges of all kinds ought (a) to have received good training from their coaches, (b) to flow in some manner in order to keep track of arguments, (c) to be clear as to what they are looking for in a debate round, and (d) to stick to what they say they’re looking for.
The activity is not the property of either the debaters or the coaches; as a community thing, it will evolve as it goes along. That being said, the debaters who can adapt will do better, as adaptation is necessary in an evolutionary environment.
BC
Posted from: 66.9.60.6
December 3rd, 2007 08:53
Congrats to Karlyn, Tess and Steph on great finishes.
Props also to John for breaking at his first tournament of the year (I think), to Akshay on another great speaker award, to Adam for breaking in his first year of LD, to Sohail for qualling and to Shireen for being top speaker and bidding.
Thanks to Princeton for running what was a really large and undoubtedly hectic touranment.
Posted from: 63.138.40.98
December 3rd, 2007 09:18
>Very few debaters were sure of their records going into Rd. 6
This may be a fair comment, in part because I’m not sure that a disclosure policy was announced. And I do believe in Oral Critiques and Disclosures as soon as possible–but remember also that these can seriously delay a tournament if they take place in the room for the round.
BC
Posted from: 216.162.91.75
December 3rd, 2007 09:36
akshay,
i’m certainly not saying that princeton is way “legit” by any stretch, nor am i saying that there aren’t alot of no-flow judges. i know that alot of people had no or few judges who flowed; the point was simply that the tournament does not have as poor judging as it is made out to have, at least in my eyes. although prelim judging can certainly be horrible, the judging pool is not wholistically “sooo illegit.”
Posted from: 140.180.5.106
December 3rd, 2007 10:18
re akshay:
not only was the overall pool quite good, the highest ranked judges do not go to the up all rounds at any tournament but rather the bubbles and 1-downs so it shouldn’t come as a surprise judges of Shih’s and Jkwan’s caliber were not in the up all rounds.
Posted from: 163.153.27.171
December 3rd, 2007 10:36
Being a terrible debater, I enjoy the parent judge
:)
Posted from: 74.73.34.67
December 3rd, 2007 10:44
BC
Your patronizing tone towards Michael only elicits your seeming lack of confidence in your tournament. Considering Micahel runs a major camp tournament, I’m sure he’d love to help out in tab. Maybe next year.
I enjoyed the tournament, however there are/were some problems that hopefull you can clear up in future years:
1. Schems. I’m not sure if it was because of lazyness, apathy, or time constrants, but having like ONE schematic for each division that was posted in the most obscure place possible is pretty ridiculous. Seriously just print out a stack of 100 (at least for vld/jvld) and allow the debaters to grab and bring it back to their team. The terrible placement of the few pairings that existed (next to the one or two doorways) created massive chaos and made it impossible to leave the building.
After my final round of LD I went to find the outround postings for PFD, and guess what? There were none. Zero existed because the one that was put up got taken down by someone. Having to walk back and forth to Whig was silly.
2. Records
Maybe the tournament is uneqiupped to deal with this request, but you really should have open tab. Considering a solid 80%+ of the pool did not disclose, it is very frustrating to have debaters going into round 6 not knowing if they are 5-0 or 0-5. Also, without any paradigms required of the judges it was inherently unpredictable.
Your comments about adapting and if you cant deal, dont do public speaking are just laughable. How about instead we just dont go to the Princeton tournament instead :/
I highly encourage adaptation and find it a necessary skill, but it requires a certain level of predictability. Judges that say “no” to “do you have any preferences” and proceed to flow little to nothing is just bad flavor.
3. Speaker point scale
Someone needs to inform Princeton judges that 15-30 (while on the ballot) is NOT an acceptable range. Countless ballots I saw had
Posted from: 74.73.34.67
December 3rd, 2007 10:46
The rest of my message got cut off, sad. The end was just how while I appreciated the tournaments attempt at perseuding judges to not turn in a 15 or so, they ultimately relented and a ton of them were given out. I can only imagine what it feels like to get a 15.
And again, I liked the tournament, and these are just suggestions, not criticism.
Posted from: 64.12.116.76
December 3rd, 2007 11:25
Princeton is one of the only tournaments that I’ve been able to attend 3 out of my 4 years as a debater. And while I definitely can relate and agree with many of the criticisms of this tournament, as someone who has been there in years past, I can honestly say this year was a huge improvement. There were a fair amount of parent judges in the field, but Princeton did a great job of hiring many of the strong judges in the Tri-State area. The two hour delays between rounds does get annoying, but this is how the tournament has been run for years, so it shouldn’t have been a surprise to those who entered. The lack of schems was a little rediculous and then when it took judges a long time to read the schems and then fight through the crowd their ballots had already been pushed (I know judges were supposed to already be in whig, but many coaches want to help their students after pairings go up). The outround panels were pretty good, this was the first year I didn’t hear a Princeton horror story where someone thought they were robbed. Princeton was a much better tournament this year, but many of the problems are true and some can be easily addressed.
Posted from: 69.48.155.2
December 3rd, 2007 11:31
I think it’s a bit ridiculous that some people still don’t know how they did in the tournament. The results packet, as far as I know, hasn’t been released yet. I got 3 out of my 6 prelim ballots back, and I’d like to know what my record was.
Posted from: 63.138.40.98
December 3rd, 2007 11:48
>Your patronizing tone towards Michael only elicits your seeming lack of confidence in your tournament. Considering Micahel runs a major camp tournament, I’m sure he’d love to help out in tab. Maybe next year.
The patronizing tone has nothing to do with a lack of confidence, but rather with an annoyance with postings which seem to reflect little knowledge of the practicalities of running a tournament. Whiny tones deserve patronizing tones in return. Thank you for clarifying.
I suspect Michael is most valuable in the judging pool, at this stage of that game; but that is a question best addressed by the Tournament Directors.
I am sure, also, that the posting of schems could be made better; again, addressing this issue with the TDs would be more helpful than posting here. I do know the main copier in Whig was having serious issues, and, in fact, died in medias res on Saturday.
>Maybe the tournament is uneqiupped to deal with this request, but you really should have open tab.
Again, this is a question for the TDs–I know I’d want the ballots in a room other than tab itself, for obvious, noise-related reasons. I wouldn’t be opposed to this, since it has become more of a norm in recent years.
>Your comments about adapting and if you cant deal, dont do public speaking are just laughable.
Actually, the comment was necessary, given that it was the foundation for a comment about ‘staying away’. If debaters stay away because they dislike adaptation, that’s their problem, intellectually.
> highly encourage adaptation and find it a necessary skill, but it requires a certain level of predictability. Judges that say “no” to “do you have any preferences” and proceed to flow little to nothing is just bad flavor.
Onthat we can agree, regardless of the type of judge we’re talking about. I think I even said that.
Judges who favor PoMo stuff and consistently vote against a more traditional approach, without saying so, are equally guilty of leaving bad flavor. (I don’t know that there are any, but the bad flavor can be left regardless of the Judge-type a given Judge falls into). The judge who in their paradigm indicates a preference for giving the benefit of the doubt to female debaters is equally at fault here.
>3. Speaker point scale
Agreed. I would prefer, frankly, a 20-30 point spread, with 20 reserved for “Monumentally Rude” in a LPW situation. I like the ballots which have adjectives attached to the numbers, also.
BC
Posted from: 63.138.40.98
December 3rd, 2007 11:49
As long as Speech and Debate rounds are sharing the same rooms, there will be the two-hour gaps between rounds.
BC
Posted from: 69.48.155.2
December 3rd, 2007 13:12
I know that the Princeton Debate Panel is open to suggestions as to how to make their tournament better. I’m sure any constructive comments will be taken under consideration. I would suggest people, if they want improvements, should list what they see as problematic and then possible solutions. Then tournament officials could see what the community expects and respond appropriately. Sometimes suggestions can’t be implimented though due to the constraints of the tournament. For example, the rooming situation means that the schedule has those two hour breaks in it….no way around it.
For me, I would suggest the following:
1) I would schedule longer between the closing of registration and the published start time of round 1. In theory, the time stated works but in reality, by the time you have actually confirmed people are present and you have entered the 20 or 30 some odd changes, talked to the judges, etc, you need more of a buffer. Plus, a 4 PM round means a 3:30 schem release which means you need to have reg closed at 2:45/3 or move the other way. The start of a college tournament is the most difficult part of the tournament due to all of the things that can go wrong. The more time you have scheduled, the better.
I think that once rounds got started, the schedule functioned well. Any lags on rounds were just making up that initial starting lag.
2. The walking between Whig and McCosh…Although Whig might be the home of the PDP, the closer the judges lounge is to the student lounge is to the tab room, the more effciently a tournament runs. I don’t know the logistic possibilities there about when rooms in McCosh etc become free but it is a thought. The LD tourney ran amazingly quickly and ahead of schedule on Sunday when everything was centrally located.
3. Ballot stuffing. Not sure what happened here but most of my kids received only (at most) 3 of their ballots. This is something the PDP should look into.
4. I thought that the PDP did a much better job creating a space for judges to hang out with food, coffee, snacks available this year.
5. In terms of disclosure, that’s an interesting question. No one can realistically force a judge to disclose but if the PDP wanted, it could encourage the practice. I think that some LD judges were confused because they might have heard someone say “no disclosure” but miss the part where that was specifically refering to PF.
In terms of open tab, I know some tournaments post records on a one round lag. just a thought.
Posted from: 12.185.225.251
December 3rd, 2007 13:31
im not sure if bill knows anything about me, but i understand the difficulties of running tournaments. i ran the nsd camp tournament last summer with paul (120ish kids) and helped out at my high schools tournament for 6 years (a finals bid). i understand that the tournament has a big pool. i think that at some point, tournaments must know their limits. my complaint is that this tournament did not know its limits and as a consequence it was one of the most monotonous and taxing i’ve attended. again, my argument is not a knock on the judging (though surely such knocks could be made, i’m not going there). it is a knock purely on the logistics. angela claims there was one 25 minute delay. my clock disagreed. the 3:30 opening assembly started around 4:30. then pairings were posted on walls (rather than being copied like any reasonable tournament) next to every exit from a crowded auditorium. thats not just ‘the difficulties of running a big tournament;’ its a really counter-intuitive decision. by the time i made it to pick up my ballot, i was rudely asked where i had been and why i was late. i do not appreciate baseless disrespect, and so as far as im concerned the tournament is due disrespect in turn. the second preset (scheduled for 8pm) was released, according to my watch, around 8:20. 20 minutes wouldnt be a big delay for a power-matched round, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON not to put out rounds 1 and 2 together to avoid that problem. then the round couldve *started at 8* instead of after 9pm.
some schools run multiple tournaments so they can have IEs only at one and debate only at the other. i dont know i this is feasible for princeton, but i strongly recommend it if it is even remotely possible.
i would love to help you improve your tab room if i am in attendance next year.
Posted from: 68.38.220.125
December 3rd, 2007 13:32
Princeton was a very fun tournament this year.
Congratulations to Marc, Akshay, Klinger, and Sean Keating!
Posted from: 12.185.225.251
December 3rd, 2007 13:38
ps: congratulations to marc and steph. even tournaments with bad logistics matter, and i was glad to see them both do well.
Posted from: 74.70.110.205
December 3rd, 2007 13:42
Congrats to Akshay, Alex, Stang, Sohail!, Karlyn, ARCHITH, Koren, Tess, Alan, Zehner, Marc, Seiden and Saagar.
For Next Year:
I would strongly recommend a better judge ranking system. I don’t think it’s fair to have a judge in a 3-1 round refuse to tell us preferences because he didn’t want to give us any hints.
Posted from: 12.185.225.251
December 3rd, 2007 13:49
oh, one more comment: quality of judges aside, i dont think the tournament used its judges effectively. i am pretty sure that i judged at least two rounds where my flight A was undefeated and my flight B was winless or at least a far lower bracket. i havent seen the packet to confirm this, but there was a big disparity. i may think a little too highly of myself, but shouldnt i be in the critical bracket instead of two different non-critical brackets?
Posted from: 209.17.190.78
December 3rd, 2007 14:00
I would strongly recommend that you not change the judge ranking system. I don’t think it’s fair to assign judges on such an arbitrary basis as whether they’ll tell you their preferences. If you’re speaking too quickly the judge will look flustered or stop flowing. If you are being nasty to your opponent the judge will look annoyed. And if you question whether you can run the triple-offcase-topicality spread-spike deluxe, you probably shouldn’t. Use non-verbal cues and just debate. Don’t tell the tournament directors to marginalize other judges.
Posted from: 74.73.34.67
December 3rd, 2007 14:26
To “I disagree”
That is absolutey atrocious. I mean seriously, non-verbal cues? People really need to understand that giving a paradigm isnt like a concession to the progressive debaters. If debate is about adaption, how about we give the kids a hint about what they should adapt to? Relying on guessing about a preference based upon the judges degree of scowl is nonsense.
Who does this marginalize? The inexperienced judges? Well, it shouldn’t. I would have no problem saying “I dislike speed and would prefer to vote for the most perseusive debater” if that was my mantra. If anything I think what you’re advocating marginalizes the “traditonal debaters” just as much, if not more. You should probably not orate without warrants and impacts in front of me, but how are you going to know unless you ask?
There has never been a convincing argument ever in regards to non-disclosure of paradigms. In the real world you often know the preferences (CEO that focuses on profits, maybe a CEO that cares about workers health plans, whatever) of the people you are speaking to. To make the kids rely on facial ticks and gestures is really just intellectually dishonest.
Posted from: 205.188.116.76
December 3rd, 2007 14:27
Congrats Jesse, Marc, and STEPH- you so deserve this.
Posted from: 74.73.34.67
December 3rd, 2007 14:29
And quickly to add – you should see Mira judge. Most debaters would consider her progressive and able to flow speed, but she is very open about how you should not run theory in front of her. If anything, she gets preferenced more than most because she’s predictable, the key to good judging imo. Judge however you want, just be open about it.
In your world it seems like we should just run theory, then look for her mood to change to glum and abandon the argument. Cool, a minute of speech time gone while I tried to read the judge.
Thats super smart.
Posted from: 140.180.20.70
December 3rd, 2007 14:36
Full results packets for JV and Varsity LD now up at
http://www.princeton.edu/~debate/hstourn/ .
Posted from: 69.48.155.2
December 3rd, 2007 14:49
I agree with Sean. Predictability is key to good judging. There are many different types of judges. It is only fair for students to know who that judge is…it’s also better for the judge. If the judges doesn’t want to hear X and never tells kids that and then the judge hears X, why is that the student’s fault.
This honestly should be taken care of by the teams bringing/hiring the judge and not the tournament. Even if it isn’t a ‘formal paradigm,’ coaches should be arming the judges they are bringing with s simple sentence to tell the kids…something like “I am a relatively inexperienced judge. Please don’t go too fast. Be sure that you have specific voting issues that explain clearly and comparitively why you have won” or something like that.
Posted from: 76.167.237.101
December 3rd, 2007 14:50
MM -
That issue of judging the highest and the lowest bracket in flight A and flight B is something the program does automatically. It is a problem with the program that tournaments can overcome by manually switching out judges for those low brackets (or high brackets).
Posted from: 68.193.253.36
December 3rd, 2007 15:05
>“I am a relatively inexperienced judge. Please don’t go too fast. Be sure that you have specific voting issues that explain clearly and comparitively why you have won”
That’s a pretty good paradigm for an experienced judge, changing only the first adjective in the quotation :)
BC
Posted from: 69.253.230.13
December 3rd, 2007 15:13
fyi, full results are up on the tournament website now
Posted from: 198.145.112.200
December 3rd, 2007 15:48
i know theres the packet but since theres no list of speakers can you post the top varsity ld speakers to vbd
Posted from: 146.115.112.26
December 3rd, 2007 15:57
one thing that yale did this year that made VLD run just VERY VERY smoothly (or minimally about a gajillion times smoother than it had on campus) was move the debaters to an area high school (shuttle buses were provided from campus). The advantages are pretty obvious. a compact area, with everything in one place, generates huge returns in terms of discovering/solving problems faster/getting ballots in faster/getting schems out faster/getting rounds off faster. Would this be possible at princeton?
Posted from: 24.115.128.87
December 3rd, 2007 16:06
I agree with everyone who says the judge ranking system should be better. The judging in my last four rounds, after being 2 and 1 were 2 ppl who decided to refuse to share a paradigm, 1 person who has never judged a debate before, and another who was too occupied eating that he did not flow. The judging is horrible, on account that there are critical rounds taking place, but no consideration was taken into account when judges were placed. Yes I know it is a program that sets the judges but as mentioned before manual placement can be done, and Im sure that tab knows pretty well the “better half” of the judging pool.
Posted from: 67.165.106.132
December 3rd, 2007 18:39
yeah bietz, i had seen it happen before, i just think its something that the tab room should try to fix. i think there is also a critical bracket setting that will fix the problem in trpc.
Posted from: 71.184.89.158
December 3rd, 2007 19:42
lots of people desesrve congrats but shout outs especially to marc, steph and tess, you guys rock.
congrats also to Mira on a being a super predictable judge (especially for me since you’d vote me down every round if you could judge me)
Posted from: 66.108.94.165
December 3rd, 2007 19:56
Critical bracket doesn’t always seem to work in TRPC, particularly in a large tournament in which several teams have huge numbers of entries. (Princeton seemed to be just that.) That said, it can be fixed through manual corrections if there aren’t a multitude of A judges in the pool.
Did a lot of parli students judge this year?
I will be posting the top speakers list now that it’s available.
Posted from: 68.46.112.219
December 3rd, 2007 20:12
Mira is actually a good judge. I found her critiques of my semi-final round to be crucial to the success of my final round debate. Her info was the best I received from any judge in the entire tournament.
On the other hand, the trio of judges I had in the semi-final round was atrocious in that they were all late-teens/early twenties kids who couldnt stop chatting during prep time, etc. The best way to remedy this would be to combine younger and older judges in break rounds (as they usually do).
Posted from: 67.165.106.132
December 3rd, 2007 20:23
yeah i totally agree, lets get those recent graduates like jkwan and mira off of JV panels ASAP.
Posted from: 74.68.51.212
December 3rd, 2007 20:30
sounds like a pretty illegit panel bro (he says sarcastically)
Posted from: 68.46.112.219
December 3rd, 2007 20:48
No need to be douches, I’m simply advocating for an age range on a panel. It was very distracting.
Anyone else ever had Brian Ross as a judge? Cream of the crop
Posted from: 76.7.52.145
December 4th, 2007 08:17
As Director for PF and IE, I can state that there are already a lot of things on the table for discussion in these two areas.
In PF, the single-flight/ double-release went exceedingly well in competition (only 3 ballots out of 244 were debaters who were late to their 2nd-round) but was exceedingly painful in pairing. Having to manually assign rooms took way too long and made the schems come out in a couple instances around 15 minutes before start-time: too short a turn-around for a college tournament. We are looking at a way to obviate that problem next year; but, again, logistics are a major issue. PF has grown from 36 teams two years ago, to 50 teams last year, to 85 teams this year. With the Quarters Bid for PF TOC, we expect the size to substantially increase. We have some solutions on the table for next year to deal with the increase and to get things rolling a bit better and more smoothly. We anticipate going to Triples next year.
As for IE, the very late time for semis has never been a big seller with me. Waiting in the bus until 1030 and 11p for finals posting while my kids get the extemp tubs loaded, only to be up at 6a for an 8a final was never any good. We did fix things a bit for IE Finals, moving it to 930a. But we definitely want to improve the format next year. Personally, I am always in favor of 3 rounds, with semis in all events that have over 30. Going from 33 to 6 is too harsh a break.
Princeton was, as a completely subjective participant, very well done this year. Great pains were taken to ensure great judge pools for out-rounds, a large number of independent judges were hired, we kept rooms as centrally located, or as correctly located as possible. The after-action report is getting done and I really believe that we will see this tournament grow and improve next year, as it has this year.
As as for the two-hours between rounds, I used to really enjoy shopping downtown and just hanging out on campus. Now, I’m stuck at the bottom of Whig Hall and not really enjoying my Princeton experience. Sigh. Next year, bring money for Christmas presents.
~bag
Posted from: 24.151.21.99
December 4th, 2007 13:40
This is a late post so it is really not important.
I do not want to bag on princeton anymore, especially since so many people contributed constructive criticism. However, I would just like to give another proposition. I dont know how carefully people enter ballots at a tournament, it seems a tedious job, and I’m sure it is not my place to mention a problem. That being said, I am listed in the packet as 4-2 19th seed. On the basis of ballots however I am 5-1 and along with a 2nd speaker I would have been 5th seed following shireen as the second highest 5-1. While my doubles decision was totally legit, it just kind of bothers me that a tab error knocked me down 14 seeds, and would have drasically changed my outround draw. This is just another issue that Princeton could be careful of.
Posted from: 216.45.237.42
December 4th, 2007 13:50
Congrats to Marc for being an absolute beast and getting to finals despite claiming to be down 4 after the sixth round.
Posted from: 74.68.51.212
December 4th, 2007 15:19
Akshay. that sucks bro.
Posted from: 69.253.230.13
December 4th, 2007 16:24
DOUBLE OCTAFINAL ROUND RESULTS
Ridge SC (Neg) defeated Niskayuna AM 3-0 Chanani Vi Rollins To Sullivan J
Millburn TM (Neg) defeated Syosset SK 3-0 Chanani Vi Rollins To Sullivan J
St. Joseph’s Prep RZ (Neg) defeated Potomac AG 2-1 *Martucci Doshi Rush May Dan
Ridge SR (Aff) defeated A.L. Johnson JM 2-1 Martucci L *Doshi Rus May Dan
Regis CR (Aff) defeated Penn Leadership AK 2-1 Shih Mike *Sherman B
Niskayuna SoS (Aff) defeated Ridge HA 3-0 Shih Mike Sherman Br
Plano East SS (Aff) defeated HHHE JS 2-1 Breslauer, *Hayes Sue Denton, Da
Great Neck So JK (Aff) defeated Thomas Jefferson CO 3-0 Breslauer, Hayes Sue Denton, Da
Pinecrest AK (Neg) defeated Regis LM 3-0 Siddique Z Iluzada, N Kwan Jon
Collegiate MW (Neg) defeated St. Joseph’s Prep MA 3-0 Siddique Z Iluzada, N Kwan Jon
Perkiomen Valley KG (Neg) defeated Ridge AT 2-1 LaMontagne *Doshi Uda Welch Mike
Plano East RS (Aff) defeated Ind. Mitchell NC 3-0 LaMontagne Doshi Uday Welch Mike
Scarsdale JS (Aff) defeated Newtown AkAg 3-0 Cai, Angel Chernick M Ross Brian
Niskayuna ST (Aff) defeated Potomac MD 2-1 *Cai, Ange Chernick M Ross Brian
Niskayuna AW (Aff) defeated Randolph AZ 3-0 Samarth Ni Mumper, Se
Whippany Park CJ (Neg) defeated Hunter College TM 3-0 Samarth Ni Mumper, Se
Posted from: 146.115.67.36
December 4th, 2007 19:08
Josh, I sincerely apologize for offending you, I did not mean to insult Mira, because of your comment I think I’ll continue to let her be my coach
Posted from: 74.73.34.67
December 4th, 2007 21:41
What the hell does age range have to do with talking? Ask them to tone it done, they wont care. Sorry you had to sacrifice for the best panel you’ll have in JV ever :
Posted from: 24.115.128.87
December 5th, 2007 19:34
JD: That is a very bad idea, (AGE RANGE) or at least in a varsity round and I get older judges I will certainly give them up to you, if you would give me some illegit younger judges. I mean just so you know the younger judges that you talk about are prtty good judges. SUch as JKwan (undefeated at TOC prelims) Mangus, mumpers and so on. I think that the younger judges definately were the most compedent at Princeton it suks they did not use them>
Posted from: 38.118.23.20
December 6th, 2007 19:53
pton’s pool was legit as hell this year. srsly, rushabh and i were judging.
and as an aside, mangus chill the fuck out. you really like people hating you don’t you? go back to sucking ceda cock will you.
Posted from: 74.73.34.67
December 8th, 2007 13:09
it’s ndt cock you retard
god I wish you terribads would just shut up
Posted from: 38.118.23.20
December 8th, 2007 14:40
yes massa massa let me bow down and lick your toes
Posted from: 74.73.34.67
December 8th, 2007 22:06
ARE YOU TRYING TO CALL ME RACIST