The Force is Strong With This One
posted by Jon Cruz on May 18th, 2005
Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight
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Posted from: 128.12.53.89
May 19th, 2005 01:54
oh god i hope triumph is there
Posted from: 128.12.53.89
May 19th, 2005 01:54
oh god i hope triumph is there
Posted from: 162.84.232.247
May 19th, 2005 04:44
oh my god so good.
Posted from: 146.115.115.110
May 19th, 2005 06:20
If they are saying it is the best since Empire Strikes Back, aren’t they just saying it’s better than Return of the Jedi?
Posted from: 151.202.43.40
May 19th, 2005 09:17
they’re saying it’s better than return of the jedi, as well as episodes 1 and 2, so that’s half the films
Posted from: 205.215.222.140
May 19th, 2005 09:39
Ah, to be young, and in love, and dressed like Luke Skywalker. I braved the stormy wastes and the godforsaken hour to stand in line at the Mall of America to be among the first to see Revenge of the Sith, and I can’t think of a better way to have spent four hours (2 1/2 in the movie; 1 1/2 in the line). I brought with me a copy of Dashiell Hammet’s The Thin Man (whose title, by the way, metaphorically gives away the otherwise unexpected ending). I was unable to concentrate on it, however, because between the Luke/Leia couples making out (why does no one ever dress like Han Solo?) and the even-more-socially-challenged-than-I who spent the entire time debating the merits of the various films both loudly and profanely, my attention was categorically directed elsewhere.
I did, eventually, see the movie.
***SPOILERS***
A fascinating vein of ethical relativism runs through the film. Whereas the first trilogy was replete with overt dichotomous symbolism (light v dark –> good v evil), this film seems to argue that the distinction between right and wrong is entirely ephemeral. This occurs on both a moral and a political level.
1. Early in the film, Anakin “rescues” Chancellor Palpatine from Count Dooku. Anakin renders Dooku helpless by cutting off both of his hands (the films seem to be obsessed with the cutting off of hands) and then Palpatine insists that Anakin execute Dooku. “But it’s not the Jedi way,” insists Anakin. “He’s too dangerous to be left alive,” counters the utilitarian-minded Palpatine. Though obviously troubled over the decision, Anakin goes ahead and beheads everyone’s favorite Hammer-film Dracula.
Later in the film, Jedi Master Mace Windu and his Jedi comrades go to arrest Palpatine, having discovered that he is actually a Sith Lord. (For the uninitiated, the Sith are the bad guys. That’s why their name sounds more like “Sith” and less like “Jedi.”) Palpatine quickly dispatches all of the less talented Jedi, leading to the film’s fourth or fifth Badass Lightsaber Duel (each of the previous five films was restricted to one central lightsaber duel, but in ROTS, they can’t seem to go five minutes without throwing down the lightsaber smack. Thus, I suppose, all the chopped off hands.) Anyhow, after a protracted battle, Windu appears to defeat Palpatine, disarms him, and has Palpatine at his mercy. Enter Anakin. “You can’t kill him,” Anakin declares. “It’s not the Jedi way.” “He’s too dangerous to be left alive,” insists Jedi Master Windu. And Windu is about to chop off Palpatine’s head when Anakin intervenes (and if you guessed that he chops off Mace Windu’s hand, go to the store and buy yourself a lollipop.)
The point is that the same utilitarian argument is made by the Masters of both sides. The Jedi’s purportedly higher moral principles give ground in the expedient moment, and Jedi morality becomes identical to Sith morality.
2. This theme is echoed in a discussion that Palpatine has with Anakin at the Space Opera (no kidding) when the Chancellor is trying to convince Anakin to come over to the Dark Side. Palpatine argues that “The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way.” Anakin counters, “The Sith rely on their passion for their power; they look inward and think only of themselves.” Palpatine: “And the Jedi don’t?” Anakin: “The Jedi are selfless.” Of course, Anakin can hardly choke out this last line, and when he does, Palpatine grins his hilariously evil grin and rolls his eyes.
3. When the Sith begin their attack on the Jedi, Obi Wan Kenobi and Yoda (far better, technically, here; the computer animators apparently spent some time studying Gollum) get together to discuss their next step. Yoda’s line: “Destroy the Sith, we must.” (Accompanied by a thumping of the little wooden walking stick he inexplicably uses when he’s not too busy leaping thirty feet into the air). The audience is invited to speculate on how the Jedi position differs from the Sith position – both are committed to the destruction of the other. True, the Sith in this film do all kinds of horrible things that the Jedi don’t do – particularly notable is the scene where Anakin (now rechristened Darth Vader, but not yet in the famous black suit and helmet) slaughters a couple dozen 10-year-old Jedi apprentices. But that is a difference only because the Jedi have ten-year-old apprentices. Yoda’s insistence on the destruction of the Sith doesn’t draw any distinctions; one can imagine that if Yoda and Obi Wan came upon a batch of creepy-looking 10-year old Sith apprentices they’d go ahead and eviscerate them, too, if they could manage it. The Jedi are ascendant, and so they have more to lose. Perhaps we can read in past events here – the Sith appear to be really really pissed off at the Jedi. In Episode I, Darth Maul looked really angry when he first claimed, “Then we will have our revenge.” And that theme has continued through the films. The implication is that at some past time the Sith had more and the Jedi took it away. Instead of a competition between good and evil, then, you can read this as a competition between opposing sides who perceive each other as evil.
Which is exactly the point Anakin (now Darth Vader) makes in his final confrontation with Obi Wan. Obi Wan hollars something strained and unpleasant, like, “You’ve turned to evil!” And Anakin responds, “From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!” Suggesting – contrary to the traditional read of the film – that it’s all a matter of perspective.
4. Politics, politics, politics.
One of Palpatine’s chief arguments for destroying the Jedi is that if they don’t, the Jedi will take over the Senate and destroy democracy. (Of course, this is exactly what Palpatine plans to do, and eventually does, in the name of “Security and peace.”) Even Anakin, who at this point is really ticked off with the Jedi because they refused to give him the rank of Master, finds this hard to believe.
Cut to a scene in the Jedi planning room. “If Palpatine doesn’t give up his emergency powers at the end of the war,” one Jedi points out, “we’ll have to remove him from power.” “But if we do that,” elucidates another Jedi, “we’d have to take over the Senate to ensure an ordered transition.” “Good idea,” they all cheer together, “let’s get a Space Beer.”
So the political motives of both sides appear to be the same: in order to secure democracy, it’s necessary to end democracy. Both sides want the same thing. Of course, the film culminates with a resounding refutation of the ideals of democracy as the Galactic Senate (nearly) unanimously grants Palpatine the powers of Emperor. “So that’s how democracy is destroyed,” notes Padme sadly; “with thunderous applause.” Of course, anyone who debated the last LD topic knows that a truly democratic society can do anything with its power that it wants to do, including vote that power away.
So the two trilogies really tell the same story, only in reverse order and from different perspectives. In the original trilogy, the Sith have won and are in charge of a dysfunctional galactic political order, and a small band of Jedi and their pals overcome overwhelming odds to kill all of the Sith and restore the Jedi to ascendancy. In the newer trilogy, the Jedi have won (what battles we don’t know) and are in charge of a dysfunctional galactic political order , and a small band of Sith and their pals overcome overwhelming odds to kill all of the Jedi and restore the Sith to ascendancy. The original trilogy is filmed as a space cowboy opera/Saturday morning serial, and the newer trilogy is a giant computer effects political intriguey hand-lopping-fest. But they’re both the same story.
I predict a third trilogy. It could take place on either end – either A Slightly Less Long Time Ago In A Galaxy Far, Far Away or An Even Longer Time Ago In A Galaxy Far, Far Away. Once again, the galactic political order is in dysfunction. The Jedi (or the Sith) are in power. The Sith (or the Jedi) form a band of wise-cracking and/or heavily emotive sidekicks and proceed to cut off the hands of their enemies, taking over the galaxy in the process. And if they churn out enough of these trilogies, we will all cease to care.
Posted from: 66.218.240.111
May 19th, 2005 10:56
Pics? :)
Posted from: 68.198.144.175
May 19th, 2005 15:14
““So that’s how democracy is destroyed,” notes Padme sadly; “with thunderous applause.””
if that is the line verbatim, it’s a rip off from Michael Frayn’s “Democracy”, which, if anyone saw, was terrific.
Posted from: 204.8.196.2
May 19th, 2005 15:15
I love it, cause I can’t love myself.
Posted from: 68.198.153.246
May 19th, 2005 15:36
Sorry guys but I gotta say, Star Wars never seemed interesting… all these non fictional creatures battling seems so unappealing… ahha
Sorry Jon
Posted from: 68.198.153.246
May 19th, 2005 15:36
Sorry guys but I gotta say, Star Wars never seemed interesting… all these non fictional creatures battling seems so unappealing… ahha
Sorry Jon
Posted from: 24.44.230.238
May 19th, 2005 16:07
Shrenil I am disowning you!!!
Posted from: 68.198.153.246
May 19th, 2005 16:16
huh? owning me… what??
Posted from: 68.12.160.175
May 19th, 2005 16:55
I loved the movie. After the first two episodes I was worried because everything seemed to follow suit: a lot of hype and, sadly, a lot of letdown. Now that I spend 5 hours waiting in line to see Episode III, I can honestly say that I haven’t been this proud og George Lucas’ work. This movie is a must see for anyone that is a fan of action movies. While the acting wasn’t great, the dark nature of the flim was done very well. I had very few quarrels with this film (those of which I will refrain from listing because of spoilers…although Dave probably took care of that for me =).) In short, this movie is worth the money and the 2 hours (or 7-8 in my case) that you spend on it.
Posted from: 68.38.212.63
May 19th, 2005 17:16
i didn’t plan on it but seeing my friends’ hype i decided on joining them at midnight. the wait was worth it and fun, and the whole movie was just one amazing thrill ride. i had a half day of school today so at 1:30pm i saw it yet again. in my opinion, it was the best film to date. if i had to order them, id say from best to least is 3, 5, 4, 6, 1, 2.. its def worth seeing. even people who dont know a thing about star wars that i went with loved it.
Posted from: 67.22.158.110
May 19th, 2005 17:27
Well first of all I loved the movie, a little on the tired side from only about 2 hours of sleep, but it was worth it.
Now onto what Dave said. First off, originally, Lucas’s idea was to have 3 trilogies, but I believe that he said he wasn’t going to be directing another one. Secondly Mr. McGinnis talked about the possibility of the plot line for the 3rd trilogy, if anyone has read the Extended Universe books (specifically New Jedi Order with the Yuuzhan Vong) those would make for an interesting continuation. If they did go for a prequel to the prequel then it could be at a time when rather than either the Jedi or the Sith in power both were evenly matched and in a full-scale war. RAther than just having one master and one apprentice it could be set in the time where the Sith were innumerable and the Jedi had to defeat them or even when they were in the tradition duo of Master/Apprentice and were causing havoc but I still think that a sequal (set after the original trilogy) would be for the best.
Now onto what Mr. McGinnis said about the moral issue brought up by the movie. In New Jedi Order books (and its a been a while since I’ve read this so I’m not sure that I have the details completely right) Jacen Solo (Han and Leia’s Jedi son) is traversing an alien controlled Coruscant and reaches the ruins of the Jedi Temple, which he can feel is a bastion of the Dark Side of the Force. He is confused about the strong sense of “evil” in something he had long thought to be a bastion of good and later on in another novel after he is captured by the Yuuzhan Vong, he is tortured by (and befriends) an alien Jedi, Vergere. When he finds the JEdi Temple built on a well of Dark Side energy Vergere explains taht there is no Dark or Light side to the force the “dark side” is just using the force without control while the “light side” is controlling how much you use limiting your power. The idea of evil and good that comes out of it comes from the fact that when one would not control their use of the force the evil that was in them would be revealed.
Sorry if that was disjointed but I’m still kinda tired. If you have questions http://www.theforce.net forums are a good place to go.
Posted from: 12.216.108.171
May 19th, 2005 18:19
I saw the movie, and some other spoilers. 1. Yoda and Obi have a love child
2. Jar Jar Binks is the deciding factor of the war
3. Darth Sidius is actually Gollum’s father. and
4. General Grievous was played by Paris Hilton
Posted from: 170.215.98.117
May 19th, 2005 18:49
How strange. Having discussed the film with five people now (if you include Hooman) I have come to realize something I never would have believed:
I’m not nerdy enough to be into _Star Wars._ :)
Seriously though…
I prefer to discuss the films as texts in themselves. I prefer this for three reasons:
First, the films are coherent, self-contained texts and that is how they are experienced by the majority of viewers. The external “universe” of, essentially, “fan fiction” doesn’t affect my reading of these bounded, 2-hour film texts. Lucas himself, fan writers, and professional genre novelists may go on for thousands upon thousands of pages elaborating on the intricacies of “the force” through their narratives, but what I see is the movie itself.
Second, I tend toward a new critical perspective.
Third, even if I weren’t a new critic, from what I understand, Lucas has disavowed any connection between the narrative world of his films and the extrafilmic world of the licensed material - comic books, games, and novels.
Posted from: 143.229.132.226
May 19th, 2005 19:05
I’ll be posting something long later tonight or tomorrow, but I want to make two quick notes.
1.) I thought it was simply awesome, not simply for the multitude of fanboy moments, but because of the power of many of the performances, the visuals, the messages, and the overall the tone and effect of the film. I would rank the films: 5, 4, 3, 6, 2, 1.
2.) Dave is correct. George does not consider the EU at all, except in the *very* rare cases in which he has taken something from them and adapted it to the films themselves (i.e. Aayla Secura or the name “Coruscant”). He half-jokingly mentioned 9 episodes (even 12 at one point), but he is not going to do any more films. There will be two spin-off series, one animated, and one live action. We’ll see how they are!
Posted from: 24.44.230.238
May 19th, 2005 19:40
Jon: You forgot to mention that he will be making all 6 in 3-D!!!
To be honest, I have been at a loss for words since the ending credits, so I doubt this entry will be well written. I, of course, loved every single moment of the film(especially the fanboy moments). It was a more than fitting end to the greatest saga of all time and if anyone has not seen it yet, they most certainly should. For my order, I would have to go with 5-3-6-4-2-1.
Posted from: 68.224.85.89
May 19th, 2005 20:49
It’s so this is how liberty dies, not democracy.
Posted from: 70.180.132.31
May 19th, 2005 20:53
i was there last night for the midnight showing in full costume…along with a vader and 2 jedi =) =) =) =) =)
the las vegas chapter of the 501st garrison was supposed to be there but sadly they bailed for a different theater at the last moment. i was looking forward to seeing storm troopers too. =(
btw….you haven’t lived until you’ve walked through downtown las vegas at 3 in the morning in star wars dress…
Posted from: 70.33.109.201
May 19th, 2005 21:03
2 words…mandolarian war
forget the sith….
a force-less army so powerful that they decimate the republic without the aid of any sith lords what so ever?
why isn’t there a movie about this
Posted from: 24.44.230.238
May 19th, 2005 21:16
Since when did the Mandalorians decimate the Republic??? Regardless, Mandalorians are awesome.
Posted from: 128.12.53.89
May 20th, 2005 02:04
Cruz, I have a question, if someone used “Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes” as an argument in a debate round, how would you deal with it?
Posted from: 67.10.151.101
May 20th, 2005 07:34
Hahaha nice.
Posted from: 67.10.151.101
May 20th, 2005 07:34
Hahaha
Posted from: 141.149.48.135
May 20th, 2005 10:37
REVENGE OF THE SITH WAS ORGASMIC
I had extremely high expectations, and the movie more than delivered
Posted from: 141.149.48.135
May 20th, 2005 10:37
REVENGE OF THE SITH WAS ORGASMIC
I had extremely high expectations, and the movie more than delivered
Posted from: 68.198.144.175
May 20th, 2005 12:12
Ryan, is the linefrom “democracy” “liberty” or is the line from Star Wars “liberty”?
Posted from: 143.229.132.226
May 20th, 2005 15:36
The line from Star Wars is “liberty.” (This was actually a change from a version of the script, which said “democracy.”)
Just saw it for the third time, and enjoyed it just as much. Here’s to twenty screenings in the theater!
I’ll post my thoughts and a response to John’s interesting question about LD strategy later. ;o)
Posted from: 205.188.117.69
May 20th, 2005 15:57
Dave, you were only in line for 90 minutes? That seems unfair. I went to southdale and got in line 4 hours before, and I was STILL outside in the rain (the line went down the hall of the arcade four times). Why didn’t I think of MOA? It seems unfair now.
And I enjoyed the movie, especially the numerous times Lucas took famous lines and slightly altered them (Padme about the fall of liberty, Skywalker about being the enemy, and so on).
Posted from: 205.188.117.69
May 20th, 2005 15:57
Dave, you were only in line for 90 minutes? That seems unfair. I went to southdale and got in line 4 hours before, and I was STILL outside in the rain (the line went down the hall of the arcade four times). Why didn’t I think of MOA? It seems unfair now.
And I enjoyed the movie, especially the numerous times Lucas took famous lines and slightly altered them (Padme about the fall of liberty, Skywalker about being the enemy, and so on).
Posted from: 143.229.132.226
May 20th, 2005 17:47
In the meantime, as a true testiment to my dorktastictness–and thus validating the comments of an anonymous poster masquerading as myself before, I suppose–my story is currently the second one featured on http://www.thankyougeorge.com, so be sure to check it out!
Posted from: 24.47.35.19
May 20th, 2005 18:23
This movie was AMAZING. Now I remember why I watched the first trilogy for hours on end when I was younger. I can’t wait to see it again.
Posted from: 68.192.190.207
May 20th, 2005 19:07
Did anyone feel like the showdown between Obi and Anakin was just one bigass Bush-bashing orgy?
The following probably involves a lot of paraphrasing, but Jon can probably correct me on this:
“…If you’re not with me, you’re my enemy”
“Only a Sith thinks in absolutes”
*Anakin gets the royal smackdown*
“PWNED, bitch”
Yeah that last part didn’t happen, but I wish it did. I’m curious to know George Lucas’s political beliefs and whether this scene was or was not indeed meant to symbolize some kind of anti-Bush sentiment, because it’s almost the exact rhetoric that Bush seems to love.
Posted from: 143.229.132.226
May 20th, 2005 20:50
I think it’s correct to say that George is not a fan of Bush–he’s made that pretty clear in a number of places–but remember that this storyline was sketched out in the early 1970s, at the tail end of the Vietnam War. Palpatine’s use of emergency powers to gain control of the Republic was always in the story, though, perhaps, his fabrication of a war to get those powers was not, and it’s interesting to see how similar to our current situation that might be. Along the same time, replace “separatist” with “terrorist” in some of Anakin’s dialogue (”you sound like a separatist!” when Padme questions the strength of the democracy for which they are fighting), and there is a definite link to the present. At the same time, I think many reviewers are too quick to forget that the story has its genesis when Lucas was fresh out of college: I think some of the criticism of Nixon-era politics remains as well.
Posted from: 70.33.109.201
May 20th, 2005 23:03
wtf george lucas…wtf
two blind monkeys with half a type writer could have written better lines…
twisting famous phrases? how about lazy
padme? from planetary ruler to galactic senator tooooo umm wife? that independence and ability to think for yourself nope not required in this role nor is the need to act properly
mace windu….greatest hero of the republic and hmm an idiot as well apparently
younglings …. once is enough
whats up with the jedis? Most powerful beings in the galaxy and they get taken down by blaster fire? yoda and mace windu both take force lightening…to the face
apparently blaster > force lightening
then there’s the issue of technological continuity
ya I know that Vader has to look the same…but you think Lucas could have reigned in that rendering farm just a little bit eh?
We’ve got Grievous whose a a bad ass four legged robot with a case of syphlis or whooping cough or something
Jump Gates - faster then light travel? a-ok
cloning technology? right-o
vader? big helmet and some buttons on his chest
that would have made sense if the other tech in the story made sense.
what do those buttons do? do they make vader dance? dance dance vaderevolution?
nobody needed to see the emperor without a hood on
not me not you not anybody
that being said everything in the movie past where Anakin becomes Darth Vader is pretty excellent…yodas the man
things I would have liked to see
there was a Jar Jar Binks Jedi…I saw it…now I want to see it fight
The Twi’lek Jedi should have also been engaged in a light saber duel
oh and a story that makes sense and well acted…Just because I know what points A and B are doesn’t mean that Lucas has the right to piss on everything in between
take home message: Dictatorships and Communism are evil! When the free market rules there is enough money to buy like 10000 battle cruisers and stuff…in a communism you get 3..oh and a national missile defense
ps. this three legged dog that I saw the other day could probably handle 4 light sabers better then Grievious
Posted from: 68.233.135.229
May 20th, 2005 23:17
i personally loved it but i had only three points of disappointment:
1) It felt like george put in Kashyyk because he felt pressured by the fans so he put in about two minutes of film about the Wookies which i was really looking forward to
2) Grievious? what the crap? i personally thought a more thorough elabration on him would have been better or not even have him created would have been good too
3) finally JAR JAR BINKS DID NOT DIE A TERRIBLE PAINFUL DEATH!!!!!!!!!!
Posted from: 70.33.109.201
May 21st, 2005 00:05
there was a whole article on the wookies too in newsweak about how much it cost to design them and all this crap
when I saw some them I was like whoooo wookies…then it was like 2 seconds of wookie fighting, some bowcasters, wookie ornithopters…name check chewbacca the end
Posted from: 64.123.102.76
May 21st, 2005 08:43
General Greivous is probably the most blatant case I’ve seen in some time of a movie creating a character for the sole and express purpose of selling acion figures.
This movie was good, so much better thn 1 and 2, but I don’t think i even broaches the greatness of the original trilogy.
Posted from: 68.199.19.199
May 21st, 2005 09:14
Allow me to answer hmmm for a moment.
1) Kashyyyk was put in for the soul purpose of getting Yoda of Coruscant. That is really it. Not for the skae of fanboys around the nation, but because Yoda couldn’t be at the temple when Anakin mass alaughtered everyone.
2) Grievous existed for the same reason. Obi-Wan couldn’t be at the temple so he went off to kill this filler character that looks cool and wields 4 lightsabers. He actually is elaborated on in the cartoon network Clone Wars series if you care that much, but movie wise, just a filler.
3) Jar Jar was in fact supposed to be killed by Anakin, but Lucas removed the shot because he thought people would laugh and cheer and that would throw off the mood of the scene.
Posted from: 68.199.19.199
May 21st, 2005 09:17
Allow me to answer hmmm for a moment.
1) Kashyyyk was put in for the soul purpose of getting Yoda of Coruscant. That is really it. Not for the skae of fanboys around the nation, but because Yoda couldn’t be at the temple when Anakin mass alaughtered everyone.
2) Grievous existed for the same reason. Obi-Wan couldn’t be at the temple so he went off to kill this filler character that looks cool and wields 4 lightsabers. He actually is elaborated on in the cartoon network Clone Wars series if you care that much, but movie wise, just a filler.
3) Jar Jar was in fact supposed to be killed by Anakin, but Lucas removed the shot because he thought people would laugh and cheer and that would throw off the mood of the scene.
Posted from: 68.199.19.199
May 21st, 2005 09:18
Allow me to answer hmmm for a moment.
1) Kashyyyk was put in for the soul purpose of getting Yoda of Coruscant. That is really it. Not for the skae of fanboys around the nation, but because Yoda couldn’t be at the temple when Anakin mass alaughtered everyone.
2) Grievous existed for the same reason. Obi-Wan couldn’t be at the temple so he went off to kill this filler character that looks cool and wields 4 lightsabers. He actually is elaborated on in the cartoon network Clone Wars series if you care that much, but movie wise, just a filler.
3) Jar Jar was in fact supposed to be killed by Anakin, but Lucas removed the shot because he thought people would laugh and cheer and that would throw off the mood of the scene.
Posted from: 68.199.19.199
May 21st, 2005 09:22
Allow me to answer hmmm for a moment.
1) Kashyyyk was put in for the soul purpose of getting Yoda of Coruscant. That is really it. Not for the skae of fanboys around the nation, but because Yoda couldn’t be at the temple when Anakin mass alaughtered everyone.
2) Grievous existed for the same reason. Obi-Wan couldn’t be at the temple so he went off to kill this filler character that looks cool and wields 4 lightsabers. He actually is elaborated on in the cartoon network Clone Wars series if you care that much, but movie wise, just a filler.
3) Jar Jar was in fact supposed to be killed by Anakin, but Lucas removed the shot because he thought people would laugh and cheer and that would throw off the mood of the scene.
Posted from: 128.12.53.89
May 21st, 2005 09:23
Min Zhang is a baller, your post is hilarious man.
Aight, I just gotta say, the tightest Star Wars (any movie?) character ever was that giant freaking lizard that Obi rode on. I’m devoting my life to breeding/genetically designing 40 foot long bearded dragons so I can ride them. Nanotech will make it happen, and I’ll ride my ginormous lizard all day.
Posted from: 143.229.132.226
May 21st, 2005 09:56
I’ve delayed finishing and posting my rather lengthy review and commentary until Monday, my first full day as a college graduate. In any case, while Craig is right in substance in his three points, I do think it’s pretty clear that the Utapau and Kashyyyk sequences were designed with fanboys in mind once they were established for dramatic necessity. (That is, once the need for removing Yoda and Obi-Wan from the action was established.) That said, I think the fanboy tributes were cool in my book (I wasn’t so sure I’d like Yoda and Chewie interacting, but it worked, even if it was a throwaway moment) and Grievous worked far better than I had thought, even he too was a throwaway character. (His “you are doomed!” line was a wonderful reminder of the Flash Gordon-esque origins of a good chunk of the saga.)
While I have a few minor issues here and there, I absolutely loved Episode III, and look forward to seeing it a good twenty times or so in theaters. :o)
Posted from: 70.33.109.201
May 21st, 2005 13:00
600 pound giant komodo dragons the vehicle of choice for ninjas and spies…
actually if that thing was in the literature then its all good
but I laughed so hard when I saw what he was actually doing with that thing…
oh thats right covert ops and sneaking around
hmmmm….anybody else realize that the bass on the thx shook the theater when that thing was around?
It’s like trying to find Bin Laden with a bunker buster
Posted from: 128.12.53.89
May 21st, 2005 17:56
1. If that thing was 600 pounds, then I’m 10 lbs.
2. The ginormous bearded/komodo dragon obviously has powers to control how far his sound waves extend (among other powers). Duh. They just didn’t want to spend too much time relishing in how awesome that thing was because the demand for a 7th episode devoted to it would have been too extreme for them to handle.
Posted from: 70.33.109.201
May 21st, 2005 21:03
one of those powers is minituariation.
I didn’t realize it at the time between Obi-Wan jumped down off the rafters he was actually only 10 inches tall
Posted from: 128.12.53.89
May 22nd, 2005 05:18
I just realized that I’m arguing about the super powers of an alien from Star Wars on an internet forum. I feel so dirty.
Posted from: 170.215.98.117
May 22nd, 2005 20:35
Okay, after they rescue Palpatine in the opening sequence, and Palpatine’s shuttle is about to land back on Coruscant, in the lower right hand section, landing in the same building but far below, is the MILLENNIUM FALCON. No joke - it’s clear as day. Watch for it the next time you see the film.
Posted from: 68.0.92.191
May 22nd, 2005 21:20
I can’t believe I am actually posting this, but I noticed the Millenium Falcon, too.
Posted from: 68.199.19.199
May 22nd, 2005 22:10
Did anyone else have a problem with the opening text when they say two JediKnights when Obi-Wan is already a Jedi Master???
Posted from: 24.46.123.119
May 23rd, 2005 20:48
I ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY LOVED IT.
Perfect? Well, no. Best in the series since The Empire Strikes Back? You bet. I thoroughly enjoyed Revenge of the Sith, and I’m sure I’ll see it in theaters no less than twenty times. The wait in line, which lasted many an hour, reminded me of why I love the Star Wars community so much. Let’s be honest: we’re all a bunch of geeks. I’m certainly no exception. I have a tremendous collection of Star Wars memorabilia. I’ve committed the films to memory and enjoy besting people at trivia about the ultimate minutiae of the films. I also code web sites, read Philip K. Dick, and, of course, coach debate. I’m exactly the kind of person who would enjoy waiting in line, dressed up as Luke Skywalker, for a midnight screening of a Star Wars film.
Not everyone is going to like this film. Some are going to bash it, because that’s the fun thing to do with anything that comes out from Lucasfilm. Others - I suspect many others - are going to enjoy the film for the visual and emotional extravaganza that it is.
THE GOOD
1. Ian McDiarmid. He single-handedly saved Return of the Jedi with his performance as the Emperor, and now, in Revenge of the Sith, he has even more to do as the manifestation of pure evil. I’m impressed, as always. The scene in the Galaxies Opera House is particularly well-played, as are all scenes when he finally returns to the makeup we grew to love and fear from the original trilogy. The reappearance of that makeup is a reminder that when it comes to Star Wars, this is the real deal. (I got a chill when the jolly Palpatine turned to Sly Moore and Mas Amedda and quickly intoned, in all of his original trilogy glory, “Leave us.”)
2. The montage sequence depicting the initial extermination of the Jedi and its accompanying music - “Anakin’s Betrayal” - is easily one of the three most emotional moments of the entire saga. I have been unable to get this imagery out of my head, and not simply because Ki-Adi-Mundi was my favorite “minor” Jedi. The original script had dialogue in this sequence. George was wise to keep the Jedi silent.
3. The collective ability of George Lucas and the creative staff at Lucasfilm to fully imagine and realize entire worlds is unbelievable. The scenery lends a great deal to the emotion throughout the film. Who else could make a “sinkhole planet” something believable and creatively designed?
4. The dialogue between Obi-Wan and Anakin was emotional throughout, and, at long last, indicates the depth of their friendship and the power of betrayal, both of which had been hinted at in the original films. Ewan McGregor is so convincing in his role that, when watching the original films, there have been moments where I have briefly thought of Alec Guinness as playing an “older Ewan McGregor.” Who would have thought?
5. John Williams is back in full force. The use of older themes at key moments is brilliant, and the new music - the aforementioned track, along with “Battle of the Heroes,” “Palpatine’s Teachings,” and the truly unsettling “Padme’s Ruminations” - is, as always, amazing.
6. With a scant handful of lines, Tion Meddon establishes himself as one of the absolute coolest supporting characters in all of Star Wars.
7. The opening moments of the space battle were appropriately grand, accompanied by perfectly dramatic war drums and isolated sound effects. The humorous banter between Obi-Wan and Anakin throughout the space battle and the rescue attempt of Palpatine also felt in tune with the original films, at long last. (ANAKIN: I sense Count Dooku….” OBI-WAN: “I sense a trap.” ANAKIN: Next move?” OBI-WAN: Spring the trap.”)
8. The copious fanboy moments for once did not distract from the film. Yoda riding on Chewbacca’s back, for example, elicited cheers and feel-good laughter from almost everyone, and didn’t feel at all out of place. I was ready to absolutely hate General Grievous, but I’ll admit: the windmill effect with the lightsabers was just pee-in-your-pants neat on the big screen, and getting to hear a Star Wars villain directly channel the power of Flash Gordon - “you must realize…you…are…DOOMED” - was awesome. The Millennium Falcon makes a cameo. And what’s not to love when the Emperor begins hurling Senate pods at his “little green friend”? (Will you ever be able to interpret Yoda’s advice to Luke about not underestimating the power of the Emperor in the same way?)
9. Hayden Christensen’s acting will never be loved by everyone, but I thought his moments of dark intensity brought a lot to the film, despite the constant efforts of Michael Boyle to find something to critcize. (I kid, partially…about Michael’s efforts!)
10. “When my new apprentice, Darth Vader, arrives, he will take care of you,” might be the best throwaway line of the original films. For once, I had a bit of sly laughter in the new films. (I am glad Anakin was dubbed “Darth Vader” prior to his immolation was also good!)
11. It no doubt sparked mixed reactions and feelings among fans, but Vader’s “Birth of Frankenstein” like creation was surprisingly powerful to me. I think it makes sense that he would have trouble walking at first, but more importantly, Palpatine’s twisting of the truth to further harness his apprentice’s anger is not only totally in character, it’s wonderfully dramatic. The full demonstration of the power of Vader’s anger is effective.
12. “If into the security recordings you go, only pain will you find.” Yoda is wise.
13. “So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause….” The parallels to Bush are clear, but it’s important to remember that Lucas is just as surely commenting on Nixonian politics. His reactions against such policies shaped the worldview that informed these films. The death of democracy in these films is tragic but not grandly unrealistic. In the end, the Republic is not overthrown by the Empire. The Republic is the Empire. And how could one question it? If one does, one sounds like…a Separatist.
14. Count Dooku’s appearance is surprisingly brief, and, given Christopher Lee’s talents, perhaps unfortunate. But, even in those moments, he is able to get in some great bits of dialogue and a convincing performance. In his last moments, he looks like not a fearsome Sith Lord, but a frightened old man. It makes Anakin’s punishment of the fallen Jedi all the more frightening.
15. The final montage involving - sorry to spoil - the construction of the Death Star (with the Emperor, Darth Vader, and GRAND MOFF TARKIN!), the austere palace of Alderaan (baby Leia is held by Bail Organa and Queen Breha, an Alderaanian that dates back to the rough draft of “The Adventures of the Starkiller”), and, finally, the setting suns of Tatooine (Obi-Wan allows baby Luke to be taken in by his Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru). I question the dedication of any “true fan” who didn’t well up just a little in the closing moments, which paralleled perhaps the most beautiful shot of the entire saga.
THE BAD
1. Natalie Portman remains absolutely awful as Padme. Stop blaming the dialogue, and stop blaming the directing. She obviously does not want to be in these films. Carrie Fisher could make “I don’t know where you get your delusions, laserbrain” into a quotable line. Portman just stinks.
2. Not a single scene with Mon Mothma, establishing the foundation of the Rebel Alliance, was worthy of a save from the cutting room floor? I hope at least one of these is re-integrated onto the DVD.
3. Without the establishing scene involving Qui-Gon Jinn’s consultation with the “Journal of the Whills” - how neat would that fanboy shout-out have been? - Yoda’s line aboard Tantive IV makes the “vital, important” plot point about disappearing Jedi feel like a checklist requirement and is totally confusing to non-fans.
4. “I haven’t gone by the name Obi-Wan since oh, before you were born.” Really? Not once was the name “Ben” mentioned in this film. Not once. How hard would this have been? I was hoping, until the last moment, that when Obi-Wan landed on Utapau, he would introduce himself to Tion Meddon as “Ben Kenobi.” The explanation of the alias, even as an off-hand reference, would have been nice.
5. Along the same lines, aside from the “Ben” moment, the only major discontinuity with the original films with which I take issue is the handling of Padme. This has nothing to do with Miss Portman’s abilities to portray the pains of childbirth. It has to do with Leia being able to remember her mother when, apparently, she gave up the will to live and died in childbirth. Luke was born first! There was no reason given as to why Leia had an even stronger “Jedi memory.” And, as a side note, if she really only remembered Queen Breha, any relevance and emotional power in this scene from Episode VI is rendered completely meaningless. The entire handmaiden scheme of The Phantom Menace always seemed to suggest, at least in my fanboy mind, that she would one day become a handmaiden herself…to Queen Breha. She would then die in tragic anonymity, enabling Leia to remember her mother as “very beautiful…kind, but…sad.” Nope. None of that.
THE JUST PLAIN WEIRD
1. To quote a fellow fan, “Did Bail Organa’s eagerness to take the baby girl strike anyone else as kind of funny? It’s a baby, guy, you’re not buying an apple.”
2. R2-D2’s antics were really funny at points, but was it really necessary to render him in CGI in some of these shots?
3. “Your powers are weak, old man.” Comparing the final duel in this film to the rematch in A New Hope demonstrates that Darth Vader wasn’t kidding.
4. How small a galaxy is this? Despite wild underestimates of some Star Wars sourcebooks, Coruscant alone must house trillions. Yet it seems as if everyone in the Star Wars galaxy knows each other. Chewbacca and Yoda’s friendship seems most symptomatic of this oddity.
5. For those of us who really loved this film, it’s laughable to see how Episodes II (which I happened to enjoy quite a bit) and Episode I (which has its moments) stack up next to it. They’re not even close.
I really, really liked this movie. A whole heck of a lot. I think you will, too. Go see it. The Force is, in the end, very strong with this one.
Posted from: 68.199.19.199
May 23rd, 2005 21:49
Tough to follow up Jon, I completely agree. I think I will try and respond to a lot of the criticism of this movie. I have seen it 4 times so far and been in 2 intense arguments about its calibur.
The Good that hasn’t been addressed by Jon:
1. I didn’t start to tear at the end, but I did get pretty emotional when the Padawan is shot down by the clones. I thought that that was an amazing scene and I only wish that George would have thrown in one more fanboy moment. That being Bail Organa fighting.
2. Perhaps the best shot of the entire film was on Mustafar when the Emporer kneels down next to the charred body of Darth Vader and gives him an extremely father like touch on the forehead. That shot alone made Return of the Jedi a much more emotional film all things considered.
3. I loved the contrast between the Jedi and the Sith that was reflected in the advice that Yoda and Palpatine had for Anakin. Yoda says ” Learn to let go of everything you fear to lose” and then Palpatin says forget that, you can simply learn to control the midichlorians in her body and create life itself. I thought that this was a very influencial part of the movie and really set up the boundries between the Sith and the Jedi.
4. How about the mice bots? Those were perhaps the most superfluous things in the movie, but I couldn’t get enough of those guys.
5. I thought that the Emporer calling Yoda little and green was perfect. Noone has ever really acknowledged the fact that Yoda is a 2 foot tall green thing and it was more than fitting dialogue.
6. Ian McDiarmid was amazing as Jon said. However, I want to focus on one moment in particular. During the climactic scene where Anakin sides with Palpatine over Mace Windu, I thought that the transition from feeble old man to a tyranical Sith Lord was sublime. It truly shows how deep the evil of Darth Sidious truly runs and just how planned out his rise to power was. Amazing moment.
7. Blue vs. Blue. The battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan was the only battle in history between two lightsabers of the same color. I thought that that was extremely significant and reflects the comradery between the master and the apprentice.
8. The TIE Fighter like ships outside of the Star Destroyer at the end of the movie was perfect. A great connection between the movies if you ask me.
9. Possibly the biggest cheer that erupted from the audience at AMC was the white hallway. Seeing the spotless white hallway that first capture our imaginations was perfect and I’m sure everyone just invisioned Darth Vader crashing through the door at that moment.
10. Wedge Antilles!!!!!! How about our favorite Rogue pilot? I don’t know if you can call it a camio, but it was spectacular.
There were many more amazing moments, but I should probably move on.
I have heard 3 main criticisms of this movie and I will respond to all of them.
1) Bad acting. Aside from Natalie Portman, I don’t know what everyone is complaining about. Ewon McGregor is great and Ian McDiarmid is my leading candidate for best supporting actor. Sure Hayden Christensen has his little kinks, but I thought there was a vast improvement between episode 2 and episode 3. When he fell to the dark side, I was crushed and for a moment believed that George had pulled a fast one on us and that Anakin was going to come out alright. The acting was, yes, shaky at times, but when it needed to be solid, it was.
2) Order 66 was too short. Here is the thing. Throughout the entire story, we haven’t really gotten to know very many jedi. Aside from the main Jedi that the story revolves around, we know Mace Windu, Plo Koon, Ki-Adi Mundi, Kit Fisto, Aayla Sacura, and Shaak Ti. The diehards know a few others and if you care enough you can look the other up, but for the most part that is it. Out of that list, you saw all of them meet their doom. Shaak Ti is killed by Anakin at the Jedi Temple for those who are wondering and if you want to get technical, Aayla Sacura lives. So anyone who has a problem with this scene should really stop complaining because Lucas showed everyone who we knew and one other person on a swoop bike.
3) The special effects were out of control. Come on people this is a science fantasy movie and Lucas is just as nerdy as all of us fanboys. I don’t see any reason to bash him for using what was available to him. There is a reason he waited to do these films and especially episode 3. He couldn’t have pulled off Coruscant back in the 1980’s. However, if you don’t buy that, I think that the special effects were appropriate. The opening space battle almost always had the Jedi Fighters in the shot so it wasn’t just showing random shots of cool space action. Instead, it showed Anakin and Obi-Wan struggling to gain access to General Grievous’ ship. This movie was demanding and Lucas used the special effects that were required to make the shots as great as they are. Let us remember that most of the Star Wars galaxy isn’t something you can find in your own backyard. To say that the special effects made the movie fake is foolish because you aren’t going to get any real spaceships, droids, aliens, or ion blasts.
Thank You George!!!!!!!
Posted from: 70.33.109.201
May 23rd, 2005 22:17
The thing with the special effects is that they are supposed to add to the movie. The point of the scenes should never be the special effects themselves nor should the effects every be substitute for poor acting or a well written and logical script.
Did anybody here see Lord of the Rings? The special effects there were ever the top as well but there was never a time when any one cgi character was ever cheesy or wierd. I just feel that George Lucas (mad with power) did many things in the movies that he should not have done and there are things that he could have done much better. Anybody can look at the other sci-fi/fantasy/comic book movies that have come out and realize that many of them were much better scripted and far more emotional. R2D2 is comic relief? What’s up with that. In the end I didn’t feel as if the beginning portion of the movie meant anything. Additionally if Portman’s acting wasn’t up to par thats the directors fault. It’s the last and third movie Lucas should have done something about it. He’s got a brick of cash lying around that I’m sure could be used to pursuade the actors and actresses to do their job.
Posted from: 207.172.150.102
May 23rd, 2005 22:22
Honestly, I thought Hayden Christensen was no better than before. He and Natalie Portman have ZERO chemistry. When he gets ticked off, he sounds liek a whiny third-grader, not Supreme Badass #1 Darth Vader. When he falls to the dark side and starts talking about saving Padme, he reminds me distinctly of a devastated little kid who’s dropped his virtual pet in the toilet.
Posted from: 24.46.123.119
May 23rd, 2005 22:23
Min, while I agree that some of Artoo’s scenes were over the top, he and Threepio were always comedy relief. One of the most constructive complaints about Jar Jar Binks in Episode I was that he took a role that was intended from the droids away from them, and he filled that role very poorly.
Plus, while you know I love you to death, I think the linking of criticism of GL with his “mad, evil power” is ridiculously fanboy-ish, even for me. ;o)
For the sake of full disclosure, I am not a fan of the Lord of the Rings films, though I love the books. I realize that puts me in an extreme minority both in the debate community, and in the general filmgoer community.
As a side note, I do think emotions can be conveyed through effects or effects-laden scenes (2001’s conclusion, the destruction of the Jedi outlined above, the trench battle in the original Star Wars, the time travel sequence in The Time Machine), when well-executed.
But, even though we disagree, you know I still <3 you. I would never think of your disagreement as a reason to deem you evil, even if it hurts me inside. After all, only a Sith thinks in absolutes. ;o)
Craig - do you mean Captain Antilles? (Not the same as Wedge Antilles.) His cameo was neat.
Posted from: 68.199.19.199
May 23rd, 2005 22:27
they aren’t the same??? Whoops. My bad.
Posted from: 24.46.123.119
May 23rd, 2005 22:29
Nope, the good captain gets choked and killed by Darth Vader in the opening scenes of A New Hope, while the future Red Leader is alive and well, and not from Alderaan. :o)
Posted from: 68.199.19.199
May 23rd, 2005 22:36
Your totally right of course, but that was still a solid camio.
Posted from: 70.33.109.201
May 23rd, 2005 22:41
Jon Cruz, I’m just sad because I love Star Wars so much.
People should still go see the movie.
My prefered medium has always been comic books. It’s my personal opinion that comics + my imagination > Industrial Light and Magic.
I guess to some degree knowing the end of the story ruined the movie. This was the only movie where I knew exactly what was going to happen. In the first two the general ideas were there but not the exactness of the details. In the first three there was always new stuff happening that was rad.
oh well, I’ll probably buy the super extended 6 episode super deluxe edition when it comes out. Even though, I have a copy of the original un-altered versions of the first three movies. For true fans and purists only. HA!
I mean I love you all
Posted from: 205.215.222.140
May 24th, 2005 11:48
Couple of questions:
1. Isn’t Wedge Antilles captain Antilles’ son? I was under that impression - if only because IMDB says that the actor who played Wedge Antilles was offered the role of Captain Antilles.
2. Aayla Secura isn’t dead? It sure did look like they killed her. I know she was one of the non-Lucas characters that was adopted for the film… is your notion that she’s not dead coming out of the fan fiction? Please explicate.
3. Why can’t Artoo Detoo still flyin the later films?
4. My biggest continuity complaints are as follows:
a. Despite the fact that they were intimately involved in the most important moments of his life; despite the fact that R2 was Anakin Skywalker’s astro droid and that Anakin BUILT C3-PO; DESPITE all that, Ben Kenobi in the beginning of A New Hope doesn’t appear to recognize either droid. Was he having a senior moment or what?
b. “We must hide this child some place where his father will NEVER find him. I know — how about his father’s home planet? With his father’s last name? THAT’LL fool ‘im!”
Posted from: 24.46.123.119
May 24th, 2005 11:55
1. No, Captain Antilles is from Alderaan; Wedge is from Corellia. “Antilles” is the “Smith” of the Star Wars universe.
2. I agree. The actress claimed she did not die, and that she might be in the spin-off television series that is set in the Star Wars universe…but she certainly seemed dead to me…though, in fairness, she did drop to the ground before the blasts could have hit her, and the scene was obscured by a large Felucian leaf. Who knows? (And if Leia can remember Padme, all bets are off!)
3. His warranty ran out?
4. a. I disagree, actually. I think he very much recognizes Artoo. Watch Alec Guinness’s performance. I’m probably reading into it, but I don’t think I am. (And he’s right, he didn’t own Artoo, and his delivery of the line is rather playful.) In fact, ROTS ends with the revelation that only Threepio had his memory wiped. In other words, Artoo knows all. There are hints that Artoo knows what’s going on to some degree in the original films, such as his beeps of recognition when he sees Anakin’s lightsaber. (This has been noted elsewhere.)
(As a side note, there is a clear hint that Vader has some compassion for Threepio in The Empire Strikes Back. Most fans, back in the day, never stopped to consider why in the galaxy the Dark Lord of the Sith would take a moment to send the disembodied parts of the protocol droid over the Chewie to be repaired. He also prevents Boba Fett from firing anything at Chewie in the carbon freeze chamber…while Chewie is holding Threepio on his back.)
b. Agreed. :o)
Posted from: 170.215.98.117
May 24th, 2005 14:23
But IMDB said that they offered the role of Captain Antilles to Denis Lawson… That would make sense if Captain Antilles was supposed to have a child resembling Wedge… Are you calling IMDB a liar?
Posted from: 170.215.98.117
May 24th, 2005 19:44
Oh, and the analysis about Darth vader and 3po is flawed.
In EMPIRE, Chewbacca STUMBLES ONTO 3P0 as he’s on his way to be smelted, and Chewie has to wrestle with a bunch of Ugnaughts to get the parts.
And it’s clear that Vader doesn’t want the carbon freezing apparatus to be damaged.
I think it’s obvious that 3P0 and R2D2 were given their roles in the new trilogy just because they were popular holdovers from the old trilogy.
Posted from: 67.22.158.110
May 25th, 2005 17:02
Wedge Antilles parents died when pirates took off from his parents fueling station improperly and made the whole thing explode.
IMDB does lie ^^
Posted from: 68.199.19.199
May 25th, 2005 17:53
I was under the impression that Tatooine was chosen because Vader would have no will to return to his homeworld because of either painful memories or family ties or something like that.
Posted from: 24.46.123.119
May 25th, 2005 18:11
Sorry, I was admittedly (and totally) unclear in what I said about Threepio. Yes, Chewie finds Threepio. But you’re forgetting that he doesn’t carry the stuff with him into an Imperial prison cell. Someone had to bring the goods to him. Why would Vader let them do that?
“And it’s clear that Vader doesn’t want the carbon freezing apparatus to be damaged.”
Not so sure how a bounty hunter with famed aim (”No disintegrations!”) would damage the apparatus.
“I think it’s obvious that C-3P0 and R2-D2 were given their roles in the new trilogy just because they were popular holdovers from the old trilogy.”
I respectfully disagree. GL is on record from the start saying they would always be in all six episodes, and that was from the very, very start. I think there are enough subtle and not-so-subtle hints that Artoo retains memory of Obi-Wan and Anakin in Episode IV that makes his place as a link between trilogies fairly clear.
Now, *Chewbacca’s* cameo in Episode III, on the other hand, smacks just a bit of popular holdover….
Posted from: 170.215.98.117
May 26th, 2005 04:11
I was foolish to oppose you. What is thy bidding, my master?
Posted from: 24.46.123.119
May 26th, 2005 08:06
Worry not, the Force is strong with you.
Posted from: 67.10.151.101
May 26th, 2005 09:42
so what is your recommendation for that “only a sith deals in absolutes” arguments from before?
Posted from: 67.10.151.101
May 26th, 2005 09:43
so what is your recommendation for that “only a sith deals in absolutes” argument from before?
Posted from: 24.46.123.119
May 26th, 2005 10:03
Palpatine’s argument that good is a “relative” point of view seems odd given that he claims to support the “dark” side. Doesn’t sound very promising in terms of goodness. If anything, much like the debate over abortion rights, one side has dictate the terms of the discourse (that is, pro-choice advocates generally refer to their opponents as “pro-life,” not “anti-choice,” as does the media).
The Jedi see things in terms of light and dark. I don’t think they are any more relativist than the Sith, because they are, for the most part, archetypal good guys. I don’t see much evidence that the Jedi think in absolutes any more or less than the Sith. (Remember, it was Obi-Wan and Yoda who believed that Vader must be destroyed, not that Anakin could be recovered.)
Posted from: 65.189.214.191
May 26th, 2005 11:33
BUT I DONT WANT TO CLEAN THE ROBOTS
Posted from: 12.216.108.171
May 29th, 2005 21:19
it’s okay, you don’t have to clean the robots
as long as i can become a doppelpalmer :-)